2023-01-26 PPS School Board Policy Committee Meeting

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District Portland Public Schools
Date 2023-01-26
Time 16:00:00
Venue Virtual/Online
Meeting Type committee
Directors Present missing
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Event 1: Board of Education’s Policy Committee - 1/26/2023

00h 00m 00s
Lowry and I'm a member of the school board and I get to be chair of this committee and we'll we'll just call on the next person to speak since it can be offered on Zoom so I'm going to call on Roseanne because she's next in my squares sorry about that couldn't find my screen uh Roseanne Powell School Board manager I'll call on Kirsten Kirsten count I'm the real estate manager and I also manage the Civic use of buildings office uh Dana right a mute uh Danna white um I manage the real estate and planning sorry Liz thank you I'm Liz large and I think technical difficulties joining the meeting so it's nice to see one guy you'd be here I'm the district's contractor general counsel and Liz uh we are inviting someone to go but since you just got here you don't know who's already introduced themselves so I'm gonna go ahead and call on Frankie thank you hi I'm Frankie I'm the representative from District student council and I'll call on Julia Julia from Edwards Board number and Committee Member and I'll call on Michelle have you already been called I haven't hi everyone I'm Michelle Michelle de pass on the school board and also on this committee I'm the only one left that I know of so uh with me just jumping in uh I'm Mary Kane senior legal counsel I also wanted to um give a heads up that uh we've invited Marshall Haskins here to speak also in the hub policy but he he is uh he has two appointments at this time so um I'm I don't I'm hoping he will be available by the time we get to it but I just don't know the answer I see Hospital s a black box I'm wondering if he's logged in and and there when we need him let's hope let's hope well we are going to go ahead and start with the Cub policies babies as our thing before we get to that though I just want to address we had talked about having the foundation policy on the agenda for today um and the District staff are looking at some ideas around Staffing that um would take part of the comments that came out of our work session in December and finding ways to do that so they're still kind of brainstorming and coming up with some ideas so those will be brought to the policy committee next month for discussion but they're still in the formative stage and we didn't want to go down One path with the policy when there are some other options we want to have a well-informed slate of ideas and opportunities to really do the best we can for this policy so that'll be coming up at the February meeting and again we want to have some urgency to this we want to get it done this school year um and we also want to do it well so that this doesn't continue to be as divisive as an issue in our community as with any policy we'll work on it now we'll do our best now and then others will come in and continue to improve and enhance so policy work is iterative but we want to do it as well as we can while we're in it so that'll be on the agenda for the next meeting can you just like repeat the first two sentences you said sorry I like all of a sudden I realized like oh she's talking about I should have been paying attention sorry uh where I don't know exactly what I said uh we're the policy on foundations is not on this agenda and that is because staff is looking at some ideas related to things that came out of the work session we talked about like One Fund that could everybody could get some money there were a bunch of different things talked about in that work session and so we've got the staff are looking at some ideas of how some of those things might work and the like how that would play out um we don't have a total picture of that so until we have a better sense of what might be we wanted to wait on the policy and just hear back some other options or opportunities based on things that were raised at the work session in December was that fair to say Liz is that a good capturing of where we are I think that works thanks great and as soon as staff have sort of talked through and looked at those processes they'll bring them but it's not like things are going to be decided without us it's just what is possible before we start having the conversation about the policy it'll be on February all right CB and 80s um is that Liz Mary Kristen who who wants to go well I think where we last left off um in our Cub discussion was there's Marshall um the materials in today's meeting are the same as the materials at the last
00h 05m 00s
meeting but Julia had some questions about usage and so we didn't we didn't have um the esteemed Kirsten Daniel or Marshall there to answer those questions so we brought them here uh to do that today I I also had some questions um but I'll wait until um I'll go I'll go next yeah and I should have said the committee because it wasn't just just Julia I just happened to remember one of those and there were others so I did not mean to leave you out directly it was a pretty good yes not at all no worries all right so let's um we have this policy before us you have in your packet a Redline version a clean draft you've got all sorts of information there at limitations um so let's uh Michelle you said you had a question and now director Julia you have questions too so and also director Hollins joined us um raises too oh great okay so the only one following right now yeah let's put a circle let's do so let's do Julia Michelle Gary HS one question get it answered and then go through the circle does that does that seem fair so everyone gets a chance to ask the question and then all right so Julia did you have a question about this policy that you'd like to ask well I went through the documents again I guess the um uh the I'm trying to think back to the the last meeting my question was really around um the use of our school buildings for um and I guess I use the example of what I was concerned about and I'm not quite sure how that translates in into the policy but for example take if you have a a middle school uh gym and not after school but in the evening um the youth like the gyms are all like usually 100 percent utilized and if you have and now with like PPS having Middle School sports and just a lot of usage like we don't have enough gym space for uh PPS students and so the question is how are we um how can our policy prioritize like the school use of its own facilities um especially when they're a scarce resource now I know like there wouldn't be there'd be lots of places in a school that like there's nobody who ever wants to use them um but there are spaces that you know we could you know have booked with all all the time or multiple users wanting it so I guess that's and I thought that was in our policy but then I would read it through and it's like it wasn't entirely clear that was the case so that is my general question uh good question and it may not be in the policy but in practice what we do is we do all the district's needs first and then we so that all gets calendared and first then what's left we is part of our negotiation typically with parks when we get that done then then we open it up to to disparate groups so we do actually prioritize um the district our own use First just I'm sorry I follow up on that so that would be if the principal or coach of the school actually put the request in by a certain time timeline or it's like is it all done at the beginning of the school year so I will say like um some school communities because they have more parents who have the time to do it are like you know at the beginning of the year in and organized but others so I don't do is there someplace and you shared like hey this is when you'd have to ask for it so you have to ask for like winter basketball time in the fall and if you don't like even if you're a school group you may end up behind other other groups I can answer that yeah so just to understand um more specifically we first permit all the pil youth use right and then parks and um if there are requests from um outside users for and specifically it's gems because that's our you know our most uh precious resource if you
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will um so that you know that the Cub office will keep those requests and then they will issue them as space is available um based on first come first serve you know typically that's how they do it now the schools in some use um and I think Marshall can speak to you know the teams specific schools oh okay so I mean it's our understanding that the youth sports teams are developed from the students that are you know at the schools and their utilization of the gym is for practice and and games and then Parks typically is on the weekend but um we if there is need for example like a carnival at a school we do uh we do ask either pil or parks to release or relinquish the gym space for activities school activities so Julia about like that just the I think it goes back to the just the nature of white supremacy and systems and how some folks are going to be you know we we sort of have to have a schedule so that we can share the gym space we have with parks and other organizations and there may be instances where parents from a more systems culture can navigate it better and more easily than parents who maybe have other stuff going on and it if the deadline is six months ahead or I don't think it's that far ahead but so I think you know we just I'm not sure how it all exactly works but I think your your question is getting to the heart of that and it sounds to me Kristen like what you were saying is that when you're made aware of a conflict you work with the other stakeholders to try to resolve it yeah and I would say however though pil it wouldn't be like if a basketball team at a school wants to use the gym every night of the week that you know for the entire basketball season that we wouldn't you know be able to release that entire season um and ask pil to relinquish our parks to relinquish that and and I but pil does work with you know sun and some of the other groups we try to you know connect everybody to make it possible if if we can it's just that there is very little excess gym time I will say that it's just innate the nature of the popularity of basketball I think the other part too Kirsten correct me if I'm wrong um the Civic use of building starts at a certain time so immediately after school until x amount of time the schools are using the facility is that pretty much standard so I know like I think our permits start at 5 30 5 45 6 o'clock so from right after school to six o'clock that is from my understanding that's always been deemed as pretty much the school time that the principal kind of controls what's going to go on during that time and then the permitting happens for the most part after that is that correct that's correct generally that is right that is correct yes that your use and Parks youth is after six all right Michelle did you have a question and then we'll go to Gary yeah um I my question wasn't about the gym um I've um used that Cub um benefit for City uh public meetings so talking about libraries School libraries and gymnasiums and I didn't see anything in the policy um it looks like we have a tiered pay structure for title schools but I didn't see anything any mention about how we would um allow Community groups non-profits 501c3s to have use of the buildings also maybe at a sliding scale or a tiered scale and my other comment was that as I recall it's been since before the pandemic since I've rented a library but they're very useful for doing public meetings and focus groups because they're so schools are so well located but the cost was extremely low and I'm sure it doesn't even cover uh 20 minutes of a janitor's time so I think it was something like between 35 and 50 for an evening so if we could right size that without costing the community out um I'd appreciate it uh so working backwards for your comments that's actually uh great to hear thank you uh we were actually yesterday had a phone call with uh the real estate Folks at San Diego unified talking to them about their Cub office and how they run things and they they really their fees cover depreciation until I mean it's it's pretty comprehensive because they they don't want you know the school dollars to be subsidizing it um and and you're right we do
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um schools don't pay anything to be there so um but we do have the program for title schools that they have a certain amount of free hours um for the you know for the year so that they can use and then um we do have a different price we have a price for for non-profits and then a price for I don't know normal people and I think now that I think about it I think some of the groups have been kind of school-based not necessarily the pp ptas but culturally appropriate groups like in outer Southeast so that makes sense thank you sure Gary did you have a question yes um so as reading through the the cup piece um and you know I'm saying how to explain it I don't see how or anything in here that's like inviting the public to [Music] um to use the facilities I mean I see a little piece about that I guess my question is one no and this is Equity right and when you're talking about organizations um how do this policy addresses that issue as K as an issue I mean as an example we are just now running um uh Ida B Wells for three hours um one day a week on Sundays for four weeks it's costing our group even at a non-profit rate thirty four hundred dollars um how do we look at the equity and make it as far as being able for kids to get have access to these things that of course their parents and we all are paying our tax dollars for how do we address that with this policy thanks and Gary I I guess I I want to say I I totally agree my question was about 501c3s or other community groups but that should even include groups that haven't aren't organized well enough to have a 501c3 yet but that you know know that there's this public building well that that is a 501 well no that is the 501c3 price at least that's the price that we was quoted yeah that seems very high just off the top but um I was I was saying we shouldn't restricts there are some Community groups that don't aren't formally a 501c3 that would still benefit from having a tiered structure that doesn't break the bank um specifically because we are a publicly funded entity so thank you I can also speak to that particular permit because it's on a Sunday a lot of the expenses related to the recovery of the overtime for custodian staff because we do not have custodians on staff on the weekends and so any Hub user if even if they don't pay the permit fee pays the custodian even District users if we're if we open a building um on a weekend they pay the custodial fee it's a direct cost just so so that's one of the reasons that it's very high also our high school gymnasium fee is um quite a bit higher than Elementary and Middle School gym use once again how do we address this in our policy to make this more affordable for organizations that can use these facilities for our kids that it it if I can see sure sure um if I can make a suggestion that it's a fair it's a financial decision um because that revenue of course goes back into the district and covers the overtime costs um that we have for you know the custodians and and for well we don't really charge for depreciation or wear and tear um but so so it's a financial decision of moving money from one bucket perhaps to another um uh if we could maybe put together what that might look like you know what what are we talking about in terms of is this the right way to get at it how much money is it that that kind of thing um and I don't know if that comes back to the committee or to to just to afford something or whatever I'm not sure how to address it you know in a policy in a way that that's um sort of concrete so you can apply it if that makes sense and I do want to respond to those one question the
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um there is an invitation to the public both in the second paragraph of the policy and as well as on the club's site the first line is we um that it it welcomes individuals and Community groups May schedule use of PPS facilities during non-school hours so um I I don't know if you've had I don't know if I can share my screen but um I think that's good enough yeah yeah okay great thank you you know I I see it but I also think it's kind of like you know everybody has an equal opportunity um statement on you know on the bottom of their email signature whatever and maybe um Gary I'm questioning maybe is there is this a matter of communicating out to our schools that we know you know have impacted under underserved students that that there is this there's this resource available should it be needed to communicate that rather than like you have to be in the know to know about it and you have to go to the website and read the second paragraph of our policy like if we could do some education around it around the around the fact that there is this resource available should Community groups need it yeah I think I think it's that and like I said just trying to how do we address it if we address it in policy or if we address it in something where else where yeah because welcome to it but when I read that and I look at the actual causes the public is welcome to for those who can afford it and Julia did you have another question so um I guess just to follow on um so I think my question got answered um that it's in practice there's this prioritization which I I appreciate and it sounds like um and Marshall you can correct me if I'm wrong but like the pil actually on behalf of the like Middle School sports makes the requests is that right that's what it sounds like happens now yes okay so you so you're putting that in so it's not like left to an individual coach or a principal to be like we've got basketball at um at George middle school and somebody has to go figure it out you you are blocking the the time for the George girls and boys basketball teams is that so there's so it's yeah yes and no so yes we're blocking it for the 1400 kids that's playing piano youth basketball yes in addition to that after school George might have another team that might be the C and D team that plays in park Bureau and then they're using a park Bureau permit in addition to that there can be a e f k team that is playing practicing from 3 45 to 5 45 at the gym so all three of those groups are covered okay but it's not now left to hey do you have a parent who can navigate that and doing it in time okay so the answer is one question then I guess my own other statement I would make is um at the very beginning Dennis said in practice this is how it works so the practice sounds great but I'm wondering like do we need that in policy that sort of prioritization or how it's done and that that's a question I'm not sure if I have a point of view or not it and it might be something to have in an ad that would be uh helpful and it Liz is the policy expert uh not me well I I mean I I think we certainly the board sets policy directions for the district to follow I think what we're trying to do with the Amendments that have been before the committee and I'm not moving enough sorry my lights went out it suddenly got really dark in here there we go um the trying to keep the policy directive at the high policy level language and the ad where the more granular information sits because some of that information needs to be amended from time to time to provide Clarity for people who are using our properties and so the policy may as we know it takes a long time to get a policy change through but the A.D to implement that policy is where we want to put a lot of the detail so um I think as we're thinking about what level of Pop of language you're thinking about if it's working then I think um on the the prioritization piece Julia and it if it's working to the
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boards um the board doesn't think there needs to be changes because it's in good stead then I'm not sure we need to put anything in the policy per se but we you know we we serve you all right the other way around so I I guess I would say it seems that the practice now works better um and is working and so maybe we don't need any policy but there was a point in time it wasn't a policy and in my point of view like it wasn't working so well I read the new clean draft of the policy I mean it starts with saying it's for our kids it's for the district's Mission and its commitments and and then the public is welcome and it does Michelle talk about um you know fee waivers and that that's that the board directs the superintendent to create that structure um for organizations directly affiliated with PPS Title One schools schools with the majority of historically underserved students and schools identified for improvements I think to me that captures a lot of the concern you raise and then it directs that the superintendent will do that work that that's not policy level as far as like making it affordable but that we as the board tell the superintendent that that that's a priority um and so I feel like the things we've asked are addressed by this policy but I think it's important to ask them so that they can help you know inform the direction the board is wanting to go on on policy use Julia do you feel like your question got answered there um yes and the one other thing I would just say is I know I've noticed in this packet maybe we had it last time and I just didn't notice it but there's a policy the other policy um the 3.30 points I think it was point zero two zero and now it's becoming an ad um and I know we don't comment on the ads um there's a lot of really substantive things in this that I had some comments on um and so I'm wondering I say I know we don't do the ad but they seem like other things like all the political stuff it seems like this language is super old um should I just send that separately to staff with like questions I'd have about the ad because it is moving from policy and yes please that would be very helpful and I appreciate the distinction and the different roles on policy and ads but we also because we're moving some policy language to an ad wanted to make sure there was full visibility to what the revised package of policy and ads for this Cub process would look like so yes please thoughts about the rocket Julia actually it was like more like the advertising the political piece the dogs I mean you know gambling so like I'll say there's a lot of things in here that like currently happen in schools um and maybe one of the I guess is one other thing in here there is a section on gangs and it seems um Target on at like gangs in um that are associated with criminal behavior um I think since this is written we've seen the rise of like proud boys Patriot group that like wouldn't fit this definition but we wouldn't want to have symbols of them and so I don't know how we address that but this seems like like language from the 70s or 80s that needs to be updated we need to add gypsies Jokers well and I think we you know hate groups or groups that are um sewing uh descent and uh are not welcome in our schools uh is I think the clear PPS policy and and I'm sure we'll be in the 80. yeah one other nuance and that's that you know you you called out that we do the the languages called out about offering fee waivers or whatever I'm thinking about specifically like things that aren't necessarily have to do with education like the meetings I've held have been around affordable housing and um those are in communities that we want to have like a safe space at the school to hold a meeting it's not education related but it's related to their ability to stay in a school district for instance so I I don't know if that's covered the language is vague enough where it could be covered but um I would hate for um I'd hate for it to not be called out because I think it's important to kind of work with those other like jurisdictional Partners on things that are of importance but not necessarily education related I think all right go ahead Liz I was just gonna say I think we could work in some additional language into the ad which builds out some of the broader statements that are in the policy foreign did you have any other questions yeah I'm just looking at the Posse piece and I I didn't want to get a clarification I want to talk about the
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uh fee waivers um it says the district about a district that shall allow the district to grab a limited number of custodial waiver for community events that's more fully defined and administrative director can you can you expand on that a little bit well the the current uh uh what we're doing the fee waiver is for uh and Kirsten corrective Enron it's six hours total or eight hours total right and just as a reminder there there are two other ads under this policy that are not under discussion because there have been no changes to it and there's more the that um custodial waiver is more fully defined in that that policy so you can so so I think we have defined it more specifically in uh the administrative director uh directive 330 11 A.D so you can go there but it's a certain number um and it's only it's for the weekend use because just to remind everybody custodial fees do not are not charged during school days because the custodian is there until 10 o'clock at night so um that coverage is already in place so what you're saying Kirsten is if someone uses on on the weekend somebody has to come in and that's a direct charge to us is different than if you use it during these school days where there's no charge right right but when I think I heard you say that in San Diego and other places we're charging you the full boat when you use our facilities period so I'm gonna paraphrase that so in Portland you're already getting a break because you're not paying the during the regular time the hours you're paying only if somebody has to get up to come into work to let you in is that and clean up yeah but let's be clear San Diego don't have school bonds that's on our property taxes either so I hear what you're saying as far as we feel like we're getting a discount but you know as a taxpayer well I'm not I'm not saying actually our pain for these that if that's the case we should just open the doors and let people in Apples to Apples like for like for free yeah but it was just open the door and let everybody and when everybody come in there because you're sitting there they've already paid for it well that's that's a great idea I think we should explore that more great idea Marshall but um but as far as the um the policy piece when we talk about uh fee worth free waivers because one I know we're not paying you know all right Janet there's 3 400 to come in and open up a building on the weekend if that is I'm gonna stop my job and come and work be a custodian just for the weekend for the weekend dollars so let's not like like this we're it's the only the amount that we're paying our janitors even the overtime rate they're not getting 3 400 in those three weeks let me go back but as far as the pro this policy piece when we talk about free waivers can we add non-profit organizations that are um that have a majority of our PPS kids that are participating in these events so for instance the uh the waiver that we I mean the program that we're doing at Ida B Wells they're all PPS Kids so is there something in the policy that we can add to say hey if a non-profit organization is renting something for something or some kind of more of a discount for programming that are including majority of our own PPS Kids and I think that's a great question to have staff take to the ad and to consider it I do think you know we we again yes there are lots of great programs that benefit our kids and yes we want to be in partnership with those and at the end of the day our buildings exist primarily for the purpose of school and so I think it's we need to be um I I think we do need to continue charging fees for use that are not the school day um but I do think that we need to like look at those make and have them be reasonable um and and TR and have staff look at what that means and what what nonprofits are we partnering with how are we looking at that in a way that both you know our job as the board is to Steward the resource of our buildings for our purpose of educating our students which is like it says at the beginning of the policy um and so I think we need to like hold that tension of there's a lot of wonderful things in our community that happen that benefit our kids and we have a very specific job and Duty um with our responsibility here so I I feel like the policy with the new language is really doing what we ask it
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prioritizes the schools it directs the superintendent to take into consideration reductions in um fees for those um partners and I think Michelle like you know not just I think you and Gary both raise like not just school-based activities but also Community enrichment activities and how can we be a successful partner in those so I would be comfortable to move this to the full board knowing that the ad is going to hold those pieces so I'm just wondering if where the policy committee is on this and if you're ready to move this to the full board or if you have more questions uh Frankie's had her hand raised I'm so sorry Frankie you're at the top of my screen and I couldn't I didn't see you go ahead sorry okay okay so I don't have access to what you all are looking at so sorry if this is very apparent on it but I was wondering about like the fee waivers like is there any specific language about like youth blood groups um and I was just wondering like if there would be a difference in cost for them um all of the documents we're looking at are on the PPS board page so if you go to the PPS um website under board meetings they'll be the meetings the materials for the meeting and you should be able to access them all there so so that's the first part and then the second part of your question someone else will need to answer around um yeah it doesn't specifically call out youth but of course yes youth group would be um would certainly could qualify for them and I'd also just also like to say along with director Hollins I'd like to see you know if this is we know that extracurriculars are really important for our kids academics are important um they're both important but to to include some language that that I mean this is benefiting PPS Kids these aren't kids coming from Clackamas County or Beaverton these are our own kids that we want to see um have access to those enrichment programs that we know um create success all right so uh director from Edwards Dr Hollins and Dr de plus are you ready to move this out of uh the committee and to the full board if so say yes yes I was well I'll say no I would love to see some language that speaks to the fact of you know non-profit organizations that are enrolling a majority of PPS Kids in the program be included in the fee waiver I would like to see something like that before I I feel comfortable moving it to the full board and I should have said that yes with caveat so Gary I have a question because that language so it's already in there that it says specific groups um it just says you know can within the administrator directive we're asking the superintendent to create a custodial view waiver process for organizations directly affiliated with Title One schools affiliated with schools with historically underserved and schools identified for the um Improvement plan um and so it sounds like the students you're working with at Wells while Wells may not be one of those schools the students are affiliated with those schools so um I'm wondering if like what other since that's the A.D not the policy um what specifically would you like to see sorry my thing just told me I'm losing power uh what specifically would you like to see in there that you're not seeing you're muted Gary and maybe because I'm not familiar with the the old ad and I'll look at that as well right um and the administrative director of is the purview of the superintendent and so that is written by the staff but we we can you know direct like we have here in the policy so like I said so I guess I have to see what that looks like before I'll be willing to move this so I can get a full understanding of the ad as well so we we don't the ad comes from the policy so we don't wait for that we pass the policy and the superintendent writes the ad to the policy that we have created correct Liz yes but understanding that what staff has proposed here is policy revisions that move some content that's more detailed from the policy to the ad so well I think that general statement is true I wanna I want to acknowledge and have us all live in this combined content right now where we're proposing to move it so I mean I do I do think the specific types of fee waivers fit nicely in the ad because they can be um that's the kind of content that can
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be tweaked and managed over time again at all times consistent with the policy so I think that the question I'm not clear on is whether we need policy language change or you would just like to see some draft a d language given that we're migrating some of the existing policy language into an ad all the list that the language on the fee waiver is in a different A.D I think Kirsten mentioned that though yes it's one that we haven't revised we haven't touched it I understand but it fits in the family of these and IT addresses directly with Dr what director Hollins is talking about so I think it's relevant even though I don't have it in front of me either we um but it is part of the same conversation so I can't speak today to the Precision of the that ad until the next may be policy meeting so I can get a full understanding of the ad um because if it is in there then I would feel more confident in moving it forward but I would definitely need more information so that's probably my ax well and I think the bigger conversation is that it is not the practice is not that the school board reviews the ad before we vote on a policy right that that is the purview of the superintendent so I think that's that's part of the question is how do we relate to the superintendent and sort of the governance structure as my bigger question then this this specific matter is complicated because we are teaching policy language and moving it into an ad but there's a bigger question around board governance that we we set the policy which is the bigger bucket and then the superintendent writes the ad which is the next smallest bucket and then our job is to do things like we're doing today which is to check in with people like Dana to see and Marshall to see what is the practice and how is it working for our communities and as Community ambassadors to bring back concerns like you have about this specific program at Wells um but it I'm concerned about the idea that we can't vote on a policy until we've made sure that ad gives us what we want that that to me feels like bad governance yeah it's not necessarily giving us what we want I just for me to get a full understanding of the distinction between the policy that we have written the things that we're moving into the administrative directors uh directives as well so it's not one verse the other just looking at how those both poorly with each other and if that means for me because I can I can understand what we're moving from the policy to the ad and what the rest of that ad says so just be short no I wouldn't recommend moving right now all right Julia um I would be comfortable moving it to a first reading um I would ask that we do more than just the paper say that we have a first reading and it's posted on the page um I think it would be good to have some Outreach too um user groups um to get feedback um I mean that's what the so for for me I'm comfortable having it going knowing that this this isn't like hey the final policy but it's really an opportunity also to let um the broader constituency and the general public know that we're um looking at changing these and to get to get feedback so I'm I'm okay using the public comment period to do that but I would hope I would I guess I would want to make sure that we have that Outreach happens and that we have a policy committee meeting in which we can discuss any feedback um before the second reading happens and again I don't have the whole um sequence of when the next board meeting would be for the first reading that we have another policy committee meeting before the second reading I think that is the natural course Julia I think the next meeting is the seventh or the full board Roseanne can correct me if I'm wrong and then the policy committee's February 16. yeah well we'd have to hustle get something out right after the first reading to like again I think do some proactive Outreach and then have the opportunity in the committee to like talk about any suggested changes that also gives uh Gary more time to have conversations or to um you know propose policy language if that's um and and actually Roseanne I'm not sure that we meet the posting requirements for the seventh yeah they're post they're gonna be post sent down posted today yeah so actually it wouldn't go then until the 21st no to the March 7th oh our next regular for me is March 7th uh the 21st is still on my calendar sorry um but we're not having a meeting on the 21st it's a work session
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so the first reading would happen on March 7. yes so we have until February 20th for those over that's when those documents are due when did you say I'm sorry February 20th thanks okay so let's go ahead and move this for the um March meeting and maybe between now and then um if we could get Dr Holland some of that AP language that's there um before that board meeting in March like the 80 specifics yeah yeah it'll go to everyone on the committee um great anything else on this before we move on all right we all now take up the um complaint policy and the changes there um again you have a Redline version Frankie did you find the documents online I have not had a chance to look right now so um at the last meeting we got some really helpful feedback um to the proposed structure from the committee members about it not being clear and we we thought that was really um like I said really helpful feedback I want to give praise to Mary for taking the laboring ore and trying to restructure this in a way that made it more clear so there was not an Endeavor to make substantive changes to this version but to reorder and provide some clarity of structure so that it was a clear policy to understand knowing that these complaint processes by multiple state and federal agencies are not all clear easy to understand trying our best to make a complex system approachable and user friendly so that's the T up for the draft you have before you today all right um what questions comments do we have about the complaint draft in front of us um I want to say it was great to read through this and see that it had been um it had been shortened and made a little bit more clear um so thank you um it's kind of like Mary did that um My overall feedback is that it's still um may be difficult for our community members to understand what things such as Oar you know 0.00-2 mean um that we reference division 22 regulations and other jargon that might not be as accessible or understandable to our community members particularly given our student population and their families um the city has a fraud and waste hotline that's advertised on it's it's you can't miss it and I'm wondering if we could do something like that also in addition to adding um and in addition to including the number of the complaint coordinator if we can make um a digital way of submitting a complaint as well as uh on the telephone and if we could also offer that in languages our Harbor languages that our students are speaking um if there was also if we could make mention of the fact that there was interpretation you know we want to be as welcoming to people as possible so if and there was sorry this policy has been translated it's the first one that actually was translated into all five languages the amendment would have to be translated as well but it's actually the one that's out there if that's helpful context it is and and also it's helpful to have um a statement saying if you want it in this English you know rather not to put everything in English so if you're a Russian speaker or reader um if it says you know click here for Russian and the click here is in English you know it so it's it's a full translation um okay also uh offering you know at The District's expense interpretation whether that's you know simultaneous interpretation that has are people that um are families that don't speak uh English as a first language um I'd like to make this policy welcoming for those folks so I think in D1 we we say that we offer translation and interpretation services and to other reasonable accommodations to assist complainants okay and
00h 50m 00s
um also I know when people are complaining sometimes it creates a another level of trauma if they feel there might be retaliation and so I don't know I didn't read it well enough to see if there was if complaints that were digital were going to a third party um or anonymized in some some way we do offer an anonymous complaint um so you can make it direct or you can make it anonymously either one and then D4 expressly prohibits retaliation for anyone who files a complain or participates in the complaint process but we try to make different paths available if people aren't comfortable submitting their their name or contact information okay and that that wasn't super clear and I also skimmed it just recently so um lastly I thought about what this might look like in digital format and there are different paths to take depending on the complaint whether it's a division in 22 complaint or something else and I'm just wondering if we've given some thought to how that might be visually um for someone to like an icon or I I'm not the best person to ask about this but to make it so it's a visual system so you don't necessarily need to read the um you don't necessarily need to read everything but you can get your complaint to the right place well we are go ahead Mary you can explain what's right would we do some frustration as well we've created a unified complaint so you don't have to figure out which form you have to fill out it's a single one and then we we redirect it to the appropriate person to respond to it so that's how we're trying we're trying to do exactly what you're saying is to make it uh as easy to access as possible it's on a web page that has a if you look at our our District web page there is a language line so you can click onto the language that of yes I haven't looked at that in a long time so I can go back thank you so so yeah we're trying to make them as the the policy the complaint whatever kind of complaint you're making as accessible and and as user-friendly as possible great thank you Julia did you have anything I did um but I have a number of things but I don't think most of them are very substantive I mean there are more questions or just minor things um so great job on everybody [Music] um Mary and the staff uh who brought this draft back to us um so I'm just gonna it's okay if I just like go through them quickly so on page two just to clarify number one it says complaints um or receive a response in 60 days just to confirm that's all complaints like if somebody put something in like I don't like the fact that the dogs are barking or like uh the lights are left on in the gym at 11 o'clock at night and they file it through the process they'll get a response in 60 days yes okay um so um again on page two the new number two division 22 formal complaints um I think it would be useful at the at the end of the first paragraph to just add some sort of language like for a full list of topics referred to and then put that link in again um because if you look at this it there's a number of them but then it's like okay but that's certainly not all of them so again to make sure to people know like hey there's more and here's where you can go get that list um the next paragraph it says an appeal must meet the criteria found in o-r-o-ar and I would just do a short summary and then provide the Oar again I don't think to me even though I've been involved in a lot of policy process that doesn't make it very it's not as accessible so just put it what what the oar is and plain and sort of like layperson's English and then include the leak link uh page three did all these topics move to the previous page I didn't I didn't do a cross check it it went from a list to some of them listed and I think we put this list together originally these were seem to be ones that would like tell people like hey you're filing a division 22 complaint s pardon we took it out completely well you put some of them in the body in the body of the right right
00h 55m 00s
um so I I guess I'd be interested in the ones that got taken out because not I say most people have no idea what a division 22 topic is so the purpose of this like list on page three when we wrote it originally was like here are things in division 22. [Music] um so again trying to be more like just using lay language just so people find it so they don't have to go through five different places um so Julia I think I always want to get clarity on direction from the committee on this because the the paragraph A2 that says division 22 has um includes and we put the big areas instructional standards and practices class size curriculum special education programs but not individual complaints health and safety Equitable education opportunities Sports saving restraint and or seclusion bias for discrimination the list that was in the that's in the current policy is not a complete list of everything in division 22. it's a lot of it but not all of it so I know there's a lot more which ones were taken out I don't know I didn't do I don't I can't here do the crosswalk um and talk at the same time but I I I I I regardless I think the question is what do you want in or out and what we endeavored to do is say here's the type of thing and here's a link to the full list and when you lick click on it you do get a table of contents that gives you lots of you know the options and you have the intake process of the burden being on District staff to determine where this unified complaint goes what kind of complaint is it so I if you want us to put the list in then we can we can put in a shorter list we can put in the list we had before we can put in the full list but I am not clear what you're asking us to do so I want to make sure we did the same thing before which is a partial list and then you can go in here get the rest of the right so do you want the full the prior list here well I guess and it's like you I can't I can't look at the list and do the crosswalk and talk so I don't know whether like hey you really should have had X in and you you dropped that out so I can I can Circle back okay okay that'd be cool because I don't think we're measurably a different place I was just wondering like what did we drop and like should we add that back in not add the whole list in but like was there something that we thought was important before which we've now dropped I think we took the sub examples under instructional standards and practices so when we say class size curriculum Etc we didn't put in testing counseling instructional materials right so we had sub list under that most of the rest is listed there yeah okay um I'm trying to I'm gonna I'm trying to crosswalk while you two talk and I think on What's Missing there I can keep talking okay do it and it's a little complicated so okay I think you're on the same page I think we're on the same page okay okay thank you I said I don't do these as a substantive um on page five though I was confused about the um page five four a if a formal complaint about division 22 matter is not substantiated so sometimes when there is a multi-part complaint we have some things that are substantiated and some things that aren't so I could see why you changed the language to is not resolved to the complaint and satisfaction because that seems fairly arbitrary but it seems like we've switched to something that is um not fully descriptive of what um we have sometimes we have partially substantiated so partially substantiated I mean maybe we should say not fully substantiated and put fully in there because if there's anything remaining the goal of this change is to make sure that people aren't appealing things they already got exactly what they asked for I think there isn't a thing to appeal and that hasn't been clear in some of the the processes so we're seeing if the district said yeah we are not in compliance with that and here there isn't anything to ask the board to do because the district already said we're not and and here's you know here's what follows from that but if it's partial then it's not fully substantiated and there is something left to appeal to the board so if that if you added fully I do think you'd need to add a sentence that says if it's partially substantiated it can still be appealed to the board only the part that's not substantiated okay that's fine but I just otherwise it's sort of like hey you missed the trick word which is fully and like even though it was partially again just I think
01h 00m 00s
and then substantiated um I am wondering if um that is I mean I know what it means because now I've sat in on a whole bunch of um complaint hearings so I I again I don't I don't have a word or a substitute and but I think that's like maybe not an accessible term for everybody if you only file one complaint in your PPS career and yeah so we've had feedback from the board that approved in Reverse I mean like we we have gone round and round on language so I'd love any ideas that you have too we'll we'll change substantiated but we also this is an issue we've talked about in a number of other contexts so I'm we haven't found it yet and we will we we like Words around here so we're gonna go find what we can but I also I feel like we have a very narrow Lane yeah do you want me to look at the stars later on anyway I remember we we discussed this at our last committee meeting and landed here so I feel like yeah okay well I'm just like again read through and I don't think any of these are like major but I just also looking at like as a parent from a parent point of view substantiated is not an approachable word it's very wonky like a lot of this policy so I hear you I hear you we will try to find something else we'll search yep page seven the top of the page we'll give notice to the complaintant that it is doing so I think we should have some some sort of like seven day notice like we shouldn't be sending even if somebody didn't like couldn't set something up and we're like we're going ahead because these guys are non you know not responding I think there should be some sort of Benchmark like hey if before the days in advance yeah something like that um and then page eight number ten um for some reason it's and it seems odd that all of a sudden now we're changing we're talking about complaints and now we change the word to allegation I mean it you know technically any complaint is an allocation um right and so I don't know why in this particular case we'd all Sudden Change the word back to because it's outside this policy so it is actually it is not a complaint in the sense of this policy it's a it's a complaint about an employee that goes through an entirely different process not covered by this policy and that's why so it says the complaint alleges employee misconduct it refers back to that allegation but it is not a complaint under this policy foreign as a complaint under this policy this policy doesn't govern how that complaint is handled is a better way to say it that's not a substantive change I think we're talking about language here but that's not a the Personnel complaints have that are strictly that have always gone elsewhere okay I'm not um I'm not raising an issue about where it's going okay what I'm the the word complaint it's like it's a like I have a complaint and like to me it's like they all are technically allegations but allegation sounds like well there may not be something to I don't know it makes it have a more um arbitrary sound to it versus like just the complaint so it just seems odd to switch it like somebody says I'm buying a plane it's like well actually that's a complaint against an employee so that just goes over here versus well actually that's not a complaint that's an allegation it's like oh what's the difference it's so so I don't know why we're renaming it we're just saying it's going somewhere else but we don't do we need to rename it well I think it's following the language of the sentence right I would be in favor of anything that makes this um user friendly for someone at the ninth grade level for instance because you know it can be really off-putting to maybe for some people maybe not for everybody to you know be referencing like the Oregon oar um ORS so if there's a if there's a way we can use very plain language I mean again this is for families it's not for experts um if we just keep that top and Center front and center um I have a who are we talking to who's our audience and who are we are we trying to make it easy for them are we trying to put a barrier up because Julia yeah I did because I don't even know that we need any language after the words in a timely manner I was just going to offer that I think that's it just dropped to the brilliant brilliant um
01h 05m 00s
Gary did you have anything on this complaint policy that you wanted to raise I think Michelle your comment about this is how do we make this navigable for general public right that this is a tool that we want we have this so to help make clear what we're doing I think that was excellent Gary did you have anything so I think you need to put your mic down Gary because we can't hear you oh I said I had I had all the uh recommendations Julia had but uh so she already said them all so I'm good Julia is definitely the hardest working board member uh definitely looks at things very very carefully and often uh race is really important issues with that yeah so we appreciate her hard work yeah she gets the James Brown award oh you didn't get because he's they say he's the hardest he was he always said he was the hardest working man in Showbiz so hey I've never been compared that was my first concert that my parents let me go to I don't know why they said yes I think they're just too tired but I went that was my first concert uh we once played this game you know where you have like a sticker on your head with a famous person's name and uh my boss the non-profit I worked with in Yakima had James Brown and Jeff sent to him as when you get this you'll feel good and uh yeah thank you Jeff is he's still bitter though like my boss didn't come back and be like that was the best clue okay your laugh well it will touch his heart Gary all right uh he has her hand up again go ahead yes thanks um so just like I had a question about some of the terms used is there any place in the policy where they're defined in the context of it or is like there any sort of guide to them on the board website also Frankie I emailed you the link to the materials I wasn't sure if you saw that thank you that's a great question there is not uh we don't we don't have a directory of terms and that may address some of director Lowry's concerns about it um actually I mean uh director to pass this um raised that issue earlier we could add that that might help things yeah I think adding that would be helpful thanks Frankie um Are there specific uh I think we Are there specific terms that you'd like us to I'm guessing substantiated is one of them unless we come up with something better um are there other terms um I haven't really had a lot of time to look over it but just whatever like kind of just appears inaccessible um and then also I guess maybe not even just specific terms but if there was a way to provide a guide on like how to read and understand a policy um just because from talking to a lot of people I think the general view is that no one would have any idea how to look at a policy oh interesting um as we do our translation work on policies maybe it'd be interesting to think about like a an orientation page at the beginning of our policy manual to say here are some helpful tips for um navigating these policies at um you know uh just to kind of help people go into how to how to navigate what what it is and some of the recurring pieces and then to talk about ads and and make sure that there's a clear length of where to find those um and like explain what those are that's a really great idea that's a great idea um it has something to add that's escaping me right now um oh that Microsoft Word has a tool that you can there's a scale that tells how accessible or how readability statistics um I'd be happy to take a look at that or you can look at that too it's under the you know review tab you can look at the readability index and it'll tell you like approximately the grade level of understanding I will tell you I I don't think this hits the Mark I mean we we really struggle it's not that we can't do more the the requirements from the division 22 process that we have to use and then the convergence of title two title six idea Title IX these uh the catch-all the anti-bias like they all come in it is a i i this isn't a the PPS problem this is a state of Oregon problem in terms of how to get complaint process so they are
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accessible so we we will work on language but we are also constrained by the crazy complexity that this state every time someone has an idea they want to create a separate reporting process a separate complaint process and we need to have some coherence at the state level that's my soapbox sorry but I mean I I we we struggle with trying to translate this that's why Mary's done this heroic work on the the uniform complaint process to try to at least take some of the translation out and more assistance in of where it should go but I hear you Michelle I um I'm a big fan of simpler language and this is a really we've struggled for years on this policy I don't know how many times and Julia's been on this committee the whole time this policy has been up and down and edited and we it's still I think it's still too complex in terms of language I agree with you thank you so it sounds like we want to send this back for a little more work before we move on to the full board um is that where we are what are we what is our sense here what are you hearing from us Liz and Mary I heard some very non-substantive additions that could that I think under our usual practice would could proceed to a first reading but uh whatever the four of you want that's what I've heard I'm comfortable with having this go for our first reading at our March meeting Gary Michelle Julia where are you on so Gary gave a thumbs up um Julia and Michelle where are you on sending this forward for our first reading at our March meeting our March 7th meeting I don't have my calendar up yes I'm okay with it I I am I am too um because I didn't actually hear um I thought I heard an agreement about the issues that I raised so I'll just um obviously look at the whatever version comes out but yes um not quite scriveners um exes but but pretty pretty non-material pretty straightforward thank you they were very helpful Julia great I feel like we're having a really productive meeting today now we're moving on to field trip policy and we had we worked on this last time um Julia was working on some language you'll see that at the bottom with the redlining um some stuff from her and then staff responses that went through the um fiscal team and some of the like conversations with fiscal about what that language might do and how we might want to consider it so um this was something we discussed last time but we wanted to talk about how we look at that Equity Fund um Liz do you want to talk a little bit about that like the Nuance of us directing ourselves around budget so right so I just want one quick technical question the top part is what Julia submitted in as submitted and then the second part at the bottom the red line reflects the staff recommendations and it is it is around that well no it's okay it's a cross-functional um look at this and the idea is to have again the policy tell this tell the superintendent and staff to make sure that there is a budget but not to tie the hands of a certain formula um that the board manages anyway and so the board approves the budget the board doesn't need to Define that with with that level of precision in a policy it's a hard I mean it's it's another budgeting um strand that sits in policy that doesn't anyway again we all work for you so you can tell us how you want it done there's not resistance to the fund there was just resistance to tying and policing exact formula given that budgets and contexts shift over time and it's a it's a fluid process that requires full context not a single line item was the perspective of staff I think Julia I love what you put in there about that I do I think I'm hesitant to put something so specific around Appropriations in our language just because like I know this year we're going to have some significant cuts and um I want us to have flexibility to make those determinations but I do like that we will establish the fund um and that it needs to be Equitable um that's my initial response um you're the one who drafted this language so what is your take on these proposed revisions um so uh you know I I this this was a conceptual draft and I'm always like have I captured you know it was complicated what I was trying to capture
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and I do think it's there's an important concept that was dropped um so it talks about that it's going to be distributed on an equitable basis but the SEC the second piece of what what looks like my internet's unstable can you hear me okay so it looks like the second piece that got dropped which was important is and again it was it was just I threw something out as like here's a concept like hey you have the top 10 schools in PPS uh their students spend uh say 50 000 a year in field trip or travel and um say that the the field trip and travel Equity Fund this year I think is five five hundred thousand so if the top 10 schools spent fifty thousand there's no way the for example the other 70 schools all got an amount equals so what I was trying to do also is like size the price of the fund and again it like 10 may be wrong or it's a true thing but it was more it's more than just like whatever whatever amount you have in there is Equitable it's also we should be paying attention to how much is being spent by these the opportunities that these other students are getting and trying to at least provide compare you know if we're going to say hey it's fine for you to raise three hundred thousand dollars to go to to Germany that we recognize that like we're gonna we're trying to offer equitable um opportunities and that by dropping the second half the language you've dropped just like what this that equity and not how it's distributed but like that the amount so I there probably is a better way to phrase it that's not so directive but it's by dropping it you've missed a piece one of them has the equity one of the things I'm wondering about is as we're saying about sorry Julia you're breaking up are you done yeah I was just saying I was just saying does that make sense but it sounds like yeah I would say you were breaking up so I was I thought you were finished and then I kept hearing sad um one question I have is does this need to be a budget appropriation you know as we talk about the parent fund with the foundation and changing the way we do the foundation is it you know a lot of the time that money that is for field trips is raised so like I know at Llewellyn we gave 8 000 a year to the school for um field trips so it wasn't PPS money that was being used it was parent raised so is there a way to ask ptas or other organizations that are funding field trips whether it's our DLI schools or our band programs or our some of our sports teams to to pay in to the fund as well like it doesn't have to just be a budget appropriation or could we ask those schools that are raising funds to also subsidize um some of the field trips so that we are um not not just raising funds for our own children but looking at our broader community and how we support one another and all students in getting these sorts of really important academic experiences yeah I guess I'm hesitant to go there because like I I'll believe we change our policy around fundraising of other groups when when we actually have language right you know that so you know it's I I am concerned that we we're saying like hey we've got a super small pot but we're going to distribute it equally but what I was trying to capture is like we also need to have an equitable pot and again it doesn't have to be as specific but like I think that should be the goal or maybe maybe it's the goal is so you're not like telling a future board or what you're doing but it should be like size of the pot should be realistic it may not matter really to your to the point you made it may not matter ultimately like whether the money comes from these other schools or appropriation but that but the the that's what the the you you want there there to be some equity and it just seems like hey we put five hundred thousand dollars in the pot we're good like we don't have to worry about that when in fact we potentially will have you know a could potentially have some pre-exist like large inequitable practices still yeah what if we did something like the goal for the fund will be based on the prior fiscal year of field trip and travel spend by the top 10 of schools in PPS different so what if we said the goal for the fund that doesn't say it has to be a budget appropriation that allows a lot of Pathways to fund the fund um but it does set like we want this to truly be an equitable fund Liz where are you going to respond to that I was just going to ask how do you how are you defining spend
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someone's gonna have to do the equation and I just want to make sure we're clear on what the equation is for spend because that include our DLI schools right like does that include travel for a whole grade to Japan I mean that's that's part of the question is what what are we looking at are we talking about you know schools going to the pumpkin patch are we talking about some of our more substantial travel that occurs in specialized programs are we including that in this Julia what were you thinking foreign I mean I think so I mean I think you know a question that's going to come up again is when we approved like these big International trips in 2018 or 19 whenever it was that we made changes the first time that there was a resolution that um the superintendent was directed to come back to the board with every eighth grade student having a Capstone experience and I don't know if um I don't think we've gotten that um back but you know I I think if we if we if we don't just keep pushing it and I I would say like I don't know if 10 is right I don't know exactly what to fit in but it's like unless we keep talking about it we'll just keep continuing have the same practices which are really inequitable totally hear you how would you define spend well like spend to me it's like for example when the board gets the travel it has this like here's what the trip costs right isn't that to spend I it doesn't include staff time so when an administrator goes on a DLI trip is that included or not I'm not trying to be difficult I'm just thinking through I know what happens around here when people try to translate a simple statement into a to a variety of programs that have a lot of complexity or the um I don't know how much we gather cost when it doesn't go to the board that's actually a question you know the pumpkin patch trip that the principal approves I don't know if that's captured now so I'm just again I'm not I'm not trying to add complexity I'm trying to make sure we are capturing your intent well okay what I would say is the pumpkin patch isn't going to be contributed because like that's not going to probably be a school that is the top 10 percent top 10 schools don't go to pumpkin patches no if if um when you say top 10 are you talking about socioeconomic grade point average okay so take no you take the the top ten that have the top 10 field and trip and travel spend so okay but I think some schools I mean I don't know do our DLI kids in middle school I mean I mean I'm assuming the DLI trips are the most expensive but like let's say Lincoln right we had the Lincoln band goes to Europe so that gets included in the spend then all of the other Lincoln field trips which might be to the art museum or to other things that need to be included right because that is the whole of their spend all of the field trips or are you just talking about the big ticket ones Julia I say I we don't have to do it this exact way but there's got to be some sort of measurement like hey like these we have very unequal experiences and I guess I I don't quite and this is probably going to be one of those things where like hey this is we thought we described it and like it needs to be it'll need to be can I take it back to staff to who work in the field trip world to help get the understanding the objective which I think we can convey and then have them translate that into operational language that would make sense in our system in terms of data we have if it's going to require you know an accounting of every field trip at every school across the district to determine which are in the top ten what is that like let me let me take it back to the people to help them craft the path the objective can I is that a reasonable Next Step yeah and I think that it's not I mean I think Julia your point is a good one that we want to make sure this is like actually funded and that there's a number in there that that um contributes to students of a variety of backgrounds having excellent experiences as part of their educational experience at PPS through things like field trip and travel so I think it's it's how do we get to that number is the thing we're like spinning on right now and I think that that is less important than saying the intent is that um the fund amount will reflect you know whatever proportion of you know travel within the district so I think I think your your point is the right one Julia I think it's how we get there is the the question that's in play right now um yeah I I want to make a point about the methodology especially when we're talking about anything dollars or anything numerical is the methodology
01h 25m 00s
does matter I mean we could just do a very simple let's look at Lincoln let's look at Jefferson let's look at the total amount of spend and that would give us some data and it might not be the best way to capture that data in terms of the disparities so I'll leave it to someone that's like even better at statistics than I am to come up with a way that's transparent for all of us the methodology is going to be very very important so I mean we can spin this so many different ways and having some light shown on how we're coming up with these um total dollars I can see like right now three ways to do it I'm just not sure what the district like which way maybe there's three other ways to do it that I'm not not aware of I think it's like those trips that are less of 100 miles those trips that are less than 100 miles we don't see them so a school could take I'm sure no school is doing this but a school could take a hundred small trips and spend a ton of money on them through their PTA and the district wouldn't actually necessarily know so I think Liz's question is how do we capture and ask some people in the field how do we capture all of the spend so we're not so we're making sure that what we're providing in the Equitable fund is robust enough I mean that's what Eric Liz say really clear how we do this in service of Equitable experiences oh sorry go ahead yeah there's some value to doing a qualitative look as well as the quantitative because you know if we're measuring dollars that's one thing are we measuring like outcomes and experiences you know we we really we want our kids to have our students have you know access to experiences um so it's dollars it's qualitative and quantitative I mean I think we need to understand what the methodology is on both of those fronts um so we get out better we're able to make better decisions here I think this is a really important um policy I have a couple couple comments um one is how do we come up with the 500 000 that we gave the first time was there some kind of quantitative measure that we came up with the 500 000 or we just say oh well we're just going to say 500 000. I just put 500 000 and um I'm happy to share what I came up with and it sort of is going to follow did you say you put in 500 000 of your own money that's just it no I just put the number I just put the number of 500 000 500 000. foreign okay um and the other thing um the main thing is um when we're looking at this policy I guess I'm looking at how to distribute it right if we're talking about equitable what do that mean you know I don't really see because we throw in Equitable stuff on equity in all the time but what did that really mean so when we talk about distribution how was that are we talking about is that per kid is that for a kid for instance who qualifies for a free reduced lunch can get access to these funds is at a school who's forever if you're going on a trip um and they have so many kids that's on for reduced lunch like how are we measuring the Equitable piece of how we spending these dollars again for me that's the main piece I mean then the second would be how to you know what kind of funding mechanism we use for that all right so I feel like we we haven't landed the plan on this yet I need to send it back from some of our work Julia yeah and I think Frankie or oh Frankie's screen is dark so I don't know if they're there but uh go ahead Julia so um I have a little bit different take on this than I normally would on normal things which is um you know to Gary's question like how to come up with 500 it's like okay the current system is completely inequitable and not transparent so 500 was like hey this is a marker to move us to like getting on the path and so um you know I guess I am would be an advocate of better um versus perfect um and so and like try and get it better and knowing that there's going to be iterations like things we haven't thought of like for example like when my kids were in elementary school a lot of times it's like hey we're gonna do the art museum trip like parents sign up and drive so you didn't have any like bus expenditure and you know like so uh there's all sorts of like little flying points and I think if we get two like down to the Fine points we're gonna lose the like bigger picture so like direct so I'm not caught up in like whatever methodology I I love Michelle's focus on methodology it's
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like whatever methodology is like if it moves us closer and knowing that we are going to have to continue to work is what I'm for um but I'm not going to get super cut but I don't but I don't want to lose that concept of the size of the size of the pot somehow being there being an equity component to it which is what makes it challenging if you take out the second part of the language you lose that piece of it but I'm not caught up on the 10 or how we Define spend but let's directionally get going in the right direction and not forget that the size of the pie really makes a big difference not just how we divide it yeah no I I agree I just yeah my question was is how we divide it is that a policy without going policy or without going to so as I'm learning about the whole policy and AD stuff so I guess that's my question if if we if we talk about like how we distribute it equitably is that more of a policy or is that something else oh I think it really I think the high level direction is in the policy but there may be some details that are in the ad and it kind of depends I mean we see this in the policy needs to provide enough direction that whatever the detail is um I'm trying to get an example in this Arena I mean the policy statement might be about these you know creating Equitable experiences and establishing a fund that does that with these high level some some more specified objectives but it may not go into the level of detail to say these are the things you're going to add up when you calculate the cost of a particular trip that might be in the policy but that the cost of the trips are a metric maybe in the policy itself but the ad would have like how do you do that and and it it varies there's not a singular rule but I think we the policy Direction needs to be sufficient enough that we can execute it and get get where the board is telling us to go I don't know if that's helpful or not so our next policy committee meeting will be February 16th and then the deadline for the meeting materials is the 20th so I think we could maybe it sounds like um for the most part we're cool with the language the staffs uh sort of I mean this is what I love about the policy committee is someone has an idea like we we discussed this at the last policy meeting Julia ran with the writing something up because it's really hard to write something as a committee in the middle of the meeting and then staff responded now we're all responding to staff's response to the idea Julia wrote down from the idea we all had and we just like continue to make each other better like this is the part I love best about being on the school board is all of us together make each other better and it's amazing so what I'm hearing is we want to add a state as a kind of a goal statement under there that that the fund be the fund to be funded um in a way that is proportional to spending um of schools on others of of the spends that happens from other schools so let's let's see if we can come up with some language for that for our meeting on the 16th and then maybe we can then pass it on the 16th so that it can be on the agenda for the board meeting in March does that sound like a path forward yes and we will go talk to the folks who are smarter than oh go ahead Gary sorry smarter than I am okay I just want to say we'll do the let we'll go bring back some language that tries to meet that objective and also is informed by actual practices and what it would take to operationalize um so there's the light again sorry you are the light at times and then I am dark again if we can put something in there to really Define what Equity really looks like like what do that I don't know what when you say equity and when every time I think of equity I think if if a school has it they get less if a school don't have it they get more so I really want to Define what that looks like um a little bit better in the Posse because I I wouldn't understand because at first if I'm at Lincoln and even if I say for instance at Lincoln right if you have a kid who can't necessarily afford it right well it's got it should be a mechanism for them to be able to be able to participate you know and I don't know how that works but I I appreciate I appreciate that guidance and we'll we'll build that into the revised language we bring back for you all to chew on and massage and or delete reject but we'll we'll build that in thank you that's helpful okay so I think we have a direction Michelle and Frankie do you have anything else to add nope I'm going to be leaving shortly to go
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get my car so I'll sign off no nice to see everyone thanks all right thank you Michelle um we uh now have our religious holidays policy to check in on anything there any updates um no I mean there there isn't a policy there's the practice so we've had Communications with Marshall about setting the the pil schedule um because remember read the policy or the policy committee discussion about that on the practices would happened after the 22-23 Athletics calendar was set so that's one of been one of kind of the hanging Chads of where all the the pieces and parts um I think where we I think where we last left the the meat of this um was in the work session and the disconnect that we had about um adding days off on the calendar for certain religions um and anyway so I think we we didn't we we said in that meeting we'd come back to the policy committee and see what what work there would be to do um so I think we're looking for a dialogue and direction okay yeah so I think I mean I feel like the the you and I had a conversation about this the direction we're asking is that our students asked us specifically about Yom Kippur and Eid that's right now in the spring he'd move but the the there's two eats the one that's the bigger celebration and what I'd like to have staff do um if the policy committee is an agreement is to have staff look at what would it take to have those days off school I mean there's some economic issue there there is a um religious freedom issue there and and we are a public entity and so we can't endorse any religion so I think there's just the conversation of what given that that's what students ask for in public testimony to at least explore that um and then to look at it I know from a policy then then if we you know we have to decide like those how do we say these are the days we take off school right like is it the largest religious groups do we Andrew's point about do we even consider religion those are good that's scary you have muted so I thought you were going to say something sorry bless you guys um yeah I was going to mention that so and I I'm as a Christian I'm turning on both on on one two sides right one looking at of course I think you know religious holidays are very important especially the ones culture um upbringing um and things like that and then the other other side I look at it as if we're here to educate of course including different cultures I guess my question is you know if another group or someone else I don't know who else another religious um foreign comes up and the student brings it forth how do we can do we continue to just look at every religion um are there just certain religions that we look at to to director Lowry's Point like how do we really manage that peace you know um on a regular basis so what I would say Dirk Charles is is constitutionally the way you select those holidays has to be religiously neutral which is a little hard to wrap our heads around but that's because you the as a public entity PPS can't favor or choose one over the other without a non-religious criteria for doing so so um when we selected the holidays that would be noted not closures but noted on the the PPS calendar we looked at a population threshold in Multnomah County a religious population threshold and if it was one percent of the population or more we included it and if it wasn't we didn't and that's not the only way you could do that but it has to be without regard to the religion itself so it it creates it's not a straightforward proposition where you could just say well I think we'll do Yom Kippur but nothing else like we you have to have a reason to do it that you can justify as a public entity I guess I'm really um you know thinking about that when we talk about days off right if if it like I'm gonna just use Christmas for instance right well if I'm not a Christian and it's you know we're taking days off for these this time then are we imposing on other kids
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are are not um but I do think recognizing them um I think that is awesome because I think in an educational sense if we are recognizing them and hopefully teaching about it um I think that is a good thing I guess so can we make our policy be if if people request that we look at taking it as a day off I mean I don't know I think this is the struggle is how do we and I you know we've talked about this like do we look at winter break and you know winter break is a long established tradition but it you know it came from a judeo-christian world view of looking at Christmas right like that's why we have it then so is that a conversation we want to have as a school board uh and you know again that families and traditions and labor Partners all would be involved in that and is this is this the conversation that's most important with everything going on in our districts but I do think it's worth saying like what are the day like what is our school calendar how is it developed what are the old-fashioned maybe white supremacist Traditions that underpin our scheduling and how do we want to think about that in a new way I mean I think that's the piece of like I I think that's a really important conversation and is that staff capacity in this moment um so that that's the piece where you know what what do we do next is up to this committee so I had a couple if once my internet becomes stable again is it can you guys hear me um my kids are like you gotta fix that Mom it's like yeah um so I have just a couple like conceptual a couple questions and then just like some things that I think are like next steps um so my first question is like is there a reason why Easter wasn't on the calendar I had that question um be asked it's on a Sunday and I'm kind of like well it's on a Sunday maybe that's not why it's not on and then the point was well outdoor school I guess starts on a Sunday and so anyway so that that's a question for sort of future again I think I think we there's a lot of positive feedback about the the calendar and recognizing I think people feel seen um so that's a question about Easter then um we can add it now I mean the board vote just to be quick with the board votes on in terms of the calendar is the days that schools are in session and PPS employees are working and the paper and the design we can we can add things mid post vote so okay let's have Easter so just to answer that question of a constituent go ahead Julia okay then um we also at the last meeting talked about sending a letter from the board and the superintendent to OSAA for their next year's um scheduling to ask them and maybe it's like you know we took a crack at this and you know here's here's here are the things that we um think would be worth noting on the calendar not to schedule over or a schedule Statewide championships or whatever um so I hope we move ahead with that again um in the spirit of making I'm really glad we pushed to add something because I do think people are like wow that's progress so like the next piece is like let's follow through and with OSAA and do that and then um so that you know I'll just put a a second behind ailey's question about the you know I think I think it's that's the big topic you know that that's a big topic to like do you take it as a day off um so I I think we should have that conversation I don't I don't yet have an opinion about like how that would structure because it's very complicated but I do think we should have the discussion about it and then the last piece and um this is like structurally how our system is set up that it it may now have lost all of its like we were doing this for a religious reason but it in in fact phase it favors the majority religion which is um Christians in the people the majority of the religion don't have to use their personal days off to celebrate the holidays and um I know that's another maybe it's not quite as complicated issue as like whether to make something a holiday but I I do think when um staff get a limited number of days off and in theory personal days are to take care of like personal like personal business is that saying well if you're not a member of the major religion and the school district has a school day on a day that's a you know significant
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celebration you have to use one of the days that everybody else gets to use for personal things for you to be home and so again I don't know exactly how we approach that but that seems like an inequity that's just like well that is what it is you know it's just um you know like some people are lucky that their religions are on a Sunday or over a winter break uh and I think there's a lot I I Julie and I have talked about this outside of the committee structure there are a lot of policies and leak even leaves that have um differentiated impact even though they have the policy is the same for everyone the impact is different so the example not necessarily a good one but I think it illustrates the point if based on your religious Doctrine you have a large family you get the same number of cyclic sick leave days as someone whose religious practices mate or lack of religious practices may not have as many children to take care of who are sick during the school year the religious Choice actually creates a differentiated outcome even though the policy is neutral and the leave because they're only three leave days but I wanna I want us to understand that this happens in a number of different contexts potentially um maybe people argue that atheists make out like you know they get everything because they don't have to take any and we're starting to make judgments about the policy not the impact based on the religion itself so it's just it doesn't mean no it doesn't mean we can't explore it but we have to think about the choices designed around religion versus the impact on religious differences I don't know if that helps frame it so um I I get your example I just don't think it is um really comparable though um and that's obviously not a legal argument um I'm not saying it's a good example but I'm trying to to demonstrate the difference between a religiously miserable policy and differentiated impact that happens we have to think about which side we're working on and I actually I actually I am I want to put them in I want to take a moment it's 5 52 and I know that we have four people who want to give public a comment and I want to honor their time that they're here I feel like this is a conversation we're going to continue to have right and so this is a place where um I want us to have this on the agenda next time as we continue to have this conversation and we'll we'll continue to also have it offline but as a policy committee to say how do we have this conversation about date especially days off and and what are the what are the criteria for when we have a day off I think that's the sort of next piece and Liz if you could bring back some sort of um ideas of maybe what that could look like I'd appreciate it is that cool you can at least circulate a framework in which that's constitutional about how to think about it I don't yes that's what we want to say U.S Constitution I remember yeah yes wearing that when I was signed in um Frankie do you have anything on this before we moved some public comment great all right Rosie and I understand we have public comment today oh go ahead Frankie um I think maybe if we could get some like stakeholder perspectives I don't know um yeah yeah thank you uh Roseanne do we have public comment today we do we have four people uh the first person is Donna Ingram who I'm gonna move over in just a quick second here okay she should be there she is welcome Donna if you could please um state your name and spell your last name and then you have two minutes and you'll hear the timer and we ask that you when you hear the timer quickly wrap up your comments yes of course thank you so much my name is Donna Ingram d-o-n-n-a-i-n-g-r-a-m she her I have three students at Ricky Elementary I'm a professional fundraiser and I lead fundraising at Reiki I'm committed to public education and support our Equity funding model I'm worried about the changes to Local School foundations and the impact to all students in PPS so what would it take to move fundraising for staff from lsfs to the fund for PPS currently the fund has one part-time staff member and four volunteer board members revenue for fiscal year 21 was 1.1 million lsfs engage hundreds of parent volunteers to raise an average of 3.3 million annually from local communities for the fun to assume this goal it would need to raise 4.5 million including at least 10 percent for administration costs a low estimate how would we get there San Francisco ISD and its foundation are a good comparison based on their Foundation we would need
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seven staff and a robust Board of 20. we would need Five-Year Plan with pre-established Partnerships and plans to Steward donors from ten dollars to five hundred thousand at least PPS in the fund would need to convince lsf donors to trust the district and choose the fund over other organizations most lsf donors have a connection to the school and its families removing this Grassroots component will most certainly results in fewer dollars raised growing an organization from one to four million is tremendous work some have suggested that we give each school one hundred thousand this would require raising 8.1 million for Staffing alone I want us to have a plan that is attainable I leave these few questions for you to consider what are the board's Revenue goals and plan for the fund who are the major donors who will support Staffing how much appetite exists among lsf donors and volunteers to support the fund Instead This is a critical question that must be answered before we make foundational changes to our current structure thank you so much for letting me take this time thanks Donna appreciate it Roseanne is our next public commenter yes it is Elizabeth Savage thank you let me get this over okay I see her hi welcome Elizabeth are you there I'm I'm sorry I'm working on I apologize here that's okay technology is still fun it is so fun okay you could can you hear and see me yeah so I hope that didn't cut into my time no that's okay when you begin if you say your name and then spell your last name for us and you'll have two minutes you'll hear the timer go off and at that point we ask you to quickly wrap up your comments thank you very much Elizabeth Savage s-a-v-a-g-e access Academy mom Foundation president uh former teacher and current attorney um under the current model designated schools receive twice as many dollars per student which is great but for those that are underfunded foundations fill a very small fraction of that funding Gap access has no vice principal no language instruction we lack adequate Staffing to accommodate our many neurodivergent students this impacts not only their education but their basic physical safety we're told that paying for even a few hours of that support is inequitable but how the only meaningful impact that this proposal will have is one of detriment not only to the students and the teachers at our school but district-wide last time I checked money was short in Supply and this plan would eliminate money to foundations through the foundations raised for the fund for PPS and there's no meaningful plan to put that back in as a former teacher I agree for those who struggle to do their jobs in a system that fails to provide them with adequate support that settles them with class sizes that make effective instruction nearly impossible as shown by research I am confused as to how decreasing the quality of any child's education increases Equity district-wide a net detriment to all with the benefit to none is not equity is the act of creation of harm finally I would ask that this board examined the racist underpinnings of a phrase that is being bandied around a lot buying teachers that phrase co-ops the language of slavery and it trivializes the atrocities of our nation history teachers are not bought and sold principals are not slave owners these are hard-working Brave and generous public servants who are struggling to make their school successful despite being deprived of the basic funds they need to do so If you eliminate foundations you demonstrate that your priority is not our schools but a symbolic gesture in the name of equity the effect of which is not Equity but to make a bad situation worse for all thank you thank you for your testimony misspelled is our next speaker Roseanne so um screen's small because they hang up on everybody it is uh Suzanne Clark I'm going to move you over Suzanne
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hi Suzanne welcome hi we um as you begin to say your name and then spell your last name for us and you'll have two minutes and when you heard the timer we ask that you quickly wrap up your comments thank you thanks my name is Suzanne Clark c-l-a-r-k-e my pronouns are she her I'm a parent of a student at Roosevelt High School who also attended okley green and Beach Elementary I'm going to be very to the point the foundation reform effort is about redrafting a policy that is unjust and racist by Design and Circumstance the district's budget allocation decisions are not nor should they ever be calculated against projected parent fundraising dollars and it is not accurate to say that you support Equity when it's only if the circumstances are such that you can be an active or even passive recipient of a policy that enables only some schools to purchase FTE especially when the schools that are able to purchase that FTE have the highest achievement outcomes in 2023 PPS schools remained segregated classrooms within our schools are segregated I hope you all read the incredibly well-researched news article by PPS student Oscar ponteri for the Franklin High School newspaper Oscar wrote fundraising disparities can even be traced back to redlining of Portland neighborhoods most notably the top foundation earner from 2021 2022 Dunaway Elementary resides and draws students most almost exclusively from Green Line to area in a 1938 redlining map a designation that excluded people of color on the basis that the neighborhood had a high concentration of homogeneous white higher income families Local Schools Foundation fundraising detracts parents from our focus on repairing the budget hole our parent organizations must unite to build support for an increase or an elimination of the local option Levy cap or reforming the kicker or demanding Salem increased funding for our schools to adequate levels we would make far greater strides in locking in teaching positions and freeing parent time and resources to build up our communities in other brilliant ways the survival of PPS depends on it and a healthy diverse democracy depends on the survival of public schools I know my my student will not experience because she's in high school any major funding shifts before she graduates I'm here tonight because I believe younger PPS students can look forward to Great PPS schools thank you all so much for your time thank you Miss Racha or Sorry Miss Al I understand we have one more speaker tonight we do we have Beth Kavanaugh foreign thank you my name is Beth Cavanaugh that's c-a-v-a-n-a-u-g-h I use she her pronouns and I'm the parent of students at Hosford middle school and Cleveland High School in preparation for discussions of potential revisions to the foundation fundraising and parents in the school policies and to better understand various proposals the group that I have been working with um on this advocacy reform PPS funding has created a modeling tool in Excel using the publicly available PPS data that we've compiled over the last several years the tool includes the ability to adjust certain parameters to see the funding implication of changes at the district and individual School level for both a district-wide approach to fundraising as well as a continuation of the current approach but with different parameters such as the required PPS parent fund contribution level all the exempt amount potential shifts in overall contributions or tiered contributions such as the proposal submitted by friends of Lincoln and other on behalf of several Foundation leaders at the December 6th work session it's important that board members understand that the proposal submitted by friends of Lincoln makes little impact on distributed funds and no impact for the vast majority of PPS schools as um as identified by Oscar pontari in last week's powerful piece in the Franklin High post the resulting increase to overall dollars contributed to the funds based on last year's fundraising would have been just over eight thousand dollars on December 22nd Kara haskey my colleague who developed the tool and I met with staff from pps's strategic Partnerships Department to provide a demonstration and copy of the modeling tool earlier this week we extended the same invitation to board members so that you can quickly evaluate the financial
02h 00m 00s
impact of a range of possibilities um my belief although Kara would have to confirm is that this could also this tool could also be adapted to evaluate other fund sharing opportunities like for PTA dollars or the field trip fund mentioned earlier in this meeting that was discussed our hope is that this could allow for more effective discussions and increase time to focus on the impact of the current fundraising model in our in our community please reach out to schedule a meeting we look forward to talking with you I included our email contact information when I submitted my written testimony thanks Beth that was like exactly two minutes perfect and you know everyone tonight has been really great all the time but I always love the person who's like says their last word right as my alarm rings it's like the first rodeo I know so I appreciate that I think that was all for uh Miss Palace is that correct I believe I can count to four we'll see Roseanne yes that is correct great okay so our meeting is now adjourned um thank you all for your time tonight I feel like we did some really great substantive work collaboratively and we have a lot more ahead of us so have a good night everyone


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