2021-05-19 PPS School Board Audit Committee Meeting

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District Portland Public Schools
Date 2021-05-19
Time 16:30:00
Venue Virtual/Online
Meeting Type committee
Directors Present missing
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Event 1: PPS Board of Education's Audit Committee - 5/19/21

00h 00m 00s
yes um so this stock like my computer computer is still not working properly so sorry um would somebody like can somebody else share this screen it's posted in board docs it's the audit status update document so everybody can follow along in the meantime while they're doing that welcome to all the staff who are here today who don't who aren't normally at the audit committee um welcome although they're not kate um she's gonna participate in another world and there's michelle and then we have parker and jackson who are the two student reps hey michelle we we're just getting started okay well thank you sorry it was on me it's in board book so if you guys want to open it on your own you'll be able to see the attachment i'll just start walking through it so first quick update on the ach audit the finance department has resumed processing new ach payment applications as well as processing requests to make updates to current ach payment information so we are planning to complete the outstanding testing of just those two processes late in june and i touch base with the finance department and they're good to go for us to come late in june the p card audit we have completed our field work we placed wrapping up on the audit on hold to prioritize the health and safety checks audit but we do anticipate um with the healthy chex audit wrapping up once school ends there it is yay um in mid-june we'll resume wrapping up on that audit the health and safety audit has been our priority right now and so we i have a memo to go over with you guys so i'll skip that one and talk about it when i go over the memo the next audit will be the hardship transfer audit we're planning to get started on that in mid-july and the student body activity funds audit we'll get started on that probably in late september a couple of other oip activity updates um my performance evaluation is due soon and so i just touched base with director de pass hi last week and or yesterday and we have a meeting scheduled um for next week to get started on that and then it will be circulated to the audit committee members for feedback um also the audit plan for the 21 22 school year is coming up due and so i'll be reaching out to members of the board and also district leadership team over the course of the summer to solicit input on ideas for what we should start auditing in the fall and then the last thing is on the pps audit reports web page we have the status of the implementation of the recommendations to the sos report posted um and the last time it was updated was december of 2020 and since we're not i talked to um claire about this and she said we're not going to she's not going to be updating that scorecard anymore so i was just wondering what the audit committee would like posted there um as follow-up and you guys can get back to me but i just didn't want to forget about what your web page looks like and it needs a little bit of updating so some direction would be helpful on that that's all i got for a status update so i just had um one thing um janice maybe on the audit the secretary um just the update for the webpage i would take whatever it is that we're going to um the the questions that we received and then our responses they packaged up and then when um the the auditors issued their final um sort of report we should just put that all together and that should be sort of the complete package it would be my suggestion okay i can do that um i asked for clarification on that um just because
00h 05m 00s
i mean are we talking about i guess i'm concerned about having something that's very digestible on our website not like the document but something that would be digestible for people whether that's a status update or i'm just trying to get clarification on what we're actually putting michelle i think what probably will be the um the best sort of final piece of a multi-part effort will be the um the auditor's sort of final report because they'll summarize all the data that we've submitted and then their own independent analysis and that seems like that coupled with the initial audit the district response should be sort of a complete package we may not agree with everything that's in that um final report but i think there will be a tying off at that point and it should be written and i think pretty provide a summary of what they ask for and um have sort of their analysis and conclusions michelle okay next week i'll i'll pull that page up for you and show you what it looks like so you'll be able to tell whether or not it looks good that's great i'm searching for it now as well great um next i appreciate the update um from the office of the internal performance auditors and next we're going to have um an update on safety checks that um janice and mary catherine have been conducting along with other teams and i ask that um janice provide an update because this because the purpose of the these audits are really are not to at the end of the time say whether or not um we were in compliance with our plans but really to provide some sort of ongoing checking and feedback to um to our to the staff in the building so that and also to um to all of us so that we have an understanding of um the status of the health and safety as we reopen our our schools and so this is an interim report and once we have the presentation here we'll have it posted and then circulated rest of the board but generally it's um i think good news um that and one of janice you you share sort of your findings and so the methodology and what you found today and dan i would welcome any feedback or color commentary from your perspective on on these i know your team's been involved in them as well um so i have i got my computer working now and i'm trying to share my screen um but i don't see the sheer green option really you don't see a green button right in the center at the bottom no i have a raised hand and a live transcript is it possible for the host to check the settings it might be because janice's other computer is still in the waiting room [Music] troubleshooting real time well it's great to have a tech team on the line [Music] okay it's joining bear with me another second okay it works okay now i see the share screen okay i am ready here so sorry guys um for those students that are online are your parents really do miss you when you go to college your your tech team moves out [Music] and we notice so here is the memo it's posted in board books for you guys and i am just going to scroll down to the best part to start with here so tour results in bold as of may 7th of 2021 the health and safety checks audit tours has not identified any non-compliance with building safety plans that would be considered significant so i wanted to start with that because julia beat me to the punch a little bit by saying it was great news and this is outstanding news this is fantastic
00h 10m 00s
so um i provided just a couple of examples of what non-significant items were identified during the tour just to give you an idea of what we're seeing so the first example is um while air filtration units were present in each classroom and symptom space area we noted six instances where the ill flotation unit was not turned on at a request the air filtrations were immediately turned on and the staff the building staff stated they would be sure to turn it on each day moving forward we also noted one instance where a nurse or sha a school health assistant was not on site while students were participating in hybrid instruction we noted the sha was scheduled to be on site however they were sick and no backup was available to cover so we talked about this with the central administration team and they stated the shaas are employees of multnomah esd and they have been in communication with the mesd who is working to fill those positions to support pps needs the other example i provided is we noted two instances where the max capacity for the classroom space was not listed in both instances we were able to confirm the max capacity for the classroom space was not exceeded so just high level we have been to 23 schools as of may 7th and we have seen hundreds and hundreds of classroom spaces so the idea that only two were missing a max capacity sign is amazing i mean the the school buildings have really done a great job following through and being in compliance with their plan so i also wanted to give you a little bit of background information but i wanted to start with the great news um so in the memo um the background just talks about how the health and safety checks audit was approved by the board of education as part of the annual audit plan for this year and the purpose of this memo is just to provide the results of what we've seen so far during our tours of both lippy as well as hybrid completed as of may 7th audit process the selection of schools for tours so we prioritize the selection of title 1 tsi and csi schools for tours we do anticipate we will be able to tour all schools that are title 1 tsi and csi in addition to additional ones but we will definitely we have the capacity to get to all of those schools communication so oipa notified building administration via email that their schools have been selected for tours typically the email is sent out on wednesday or thursday stating the tour will take place the following week the exact date and time of the tour was not provided so it was a little bit of a surprise when we showed up but they definitely knew we were coming that was good um at the end of the tours oipa offered a verbal debriefing to the school building administration to discuss all items of concern identified during the tours this provided the school building administration with timely feedback and the opportunity to address any concerns immediately so as some of the examples that i shared you know where the capacity sign wasn't listed they were able just to print one and post it right away um written results of the tours were emailed to the building administ building administration along with the central office administration team timely typically within two business days um typically we're doing our best to do it within two business days um oipa is also participating in weekly status meetings with the central office administration team to discuss and address concerns identified during the tour and i have another paragraph on that below so i'll tell you more about that at the request of the central administration team if our tour identifies any items of concern that would be considered significant they all gave me their cell phone
00h 15m 00s
numbers and we agreed to call them immediately to discuss any items that would be considered significant but so far that hasn't been the case so that's really great um okay so i started with that paragraph um i do want to draw one um [Music] i just want to say one recommendation here and so we did note that the guidance provided to building administrators is not clear as to whether or not a window in classrooms and symptom spaces is required to be open to increase airflow so as it's like an iterative recommendation and um you know again i'm working with district administration to clarify this guidance but we do recommend the school district clarified guidance as to whether or not the window in the classroom and symptoms space areas is required to be open to increased air circulation and ensure updated guidance is circulated to building administrators as soon as possible and after i wrote this i think we have all agreed that for the classrooms it's not required to be opened and for the symptom space room we're still talking about a little bit um okay so the attachment b is a the hybrid tour checklist template that we used for the tours it's long and it's very detailed and if you guys are interested i encourage you all to take a look at it to see what type of information we're looking for as with each building each building is their plan is totally different from the other ones so they're highly customized and we audit to each school's field individual building plan which are different from each other i also want to say some nice things about the district administration team specifically natasha and juniper they have just been so fantastic to work with i know they have a lot of responsibilities but um every time i have a question or need a quick answer or run something by them they've been so responsive and i just really appreciate working with them they're just great so we also believe that the results of the tour completed this far resulting in no significant non-compliance demonstrates the school district's commitment to a safe reopening to schools so follow up on tour results so these are the weekly meetings that we participate with central administration team where items identified during the tours are discussed and addressed and at the request of the administration team oipa is also reviewing evidence that items identified during the tour has been addressed and resolved as the audit progresses for example if the building administrator takes a picture of the max capacity sign that has been posted for the classroom spaces where they were missing we would consider that item to be resolved so we are working with the administration team each week we have a joint worksheet where we go through um what can be what what's the evidence that we're looking for to consider these items resolved so that's great due to the unique nature of this audit we agree with the administration team that reviewing evidence that items identified in the tour have been resolved as the audit progresses is a better approach than waiting until all the audit tours have been completed and due to the collaborative approach taken by the district administration team we anticipate that all the items identified in the tours will be resolved before the final audit report will even be issued any items that have not been resolved will be detailed in the final audit report along with recommendations okay tour is completed so far um as of may 7th we had done 10 lippy tours and 13 hybrid tours we are on track to tour an additional 21
00h 20m 00s
buildings um providing hybrid instruction and that represents in total about 45 of all pps buildings so we're very busy um getting to meet all of the school administrators it's just so fantastic so attachment a is a list of all the buildings we have toured so far separately listed the lippy ones and then the hybrid ones um and then down here these this is the checklist i mentioned it's all here and um just so you can get an idea um like for example here at the building entry it's like the buildings are required to diligently screen all students and staff for symptoms on entry but every single building is has a totally different entry plan so some places will have three entry points some will have five so each plan is totally customized to their building and we update our audit procedures specifically to whatever their plan sets the template doesn't include any specific building content but you can see right here below this is where each building would enter in their building specific information that we would bought it to okay i think that's everything i have are there any questions also i'd like to give dan if you have anything um just your team was involved in this if you think you have anything you want to add before we jump into questions if there are any uh i think uh thank you good evening everyone dan young here um i just want to i think appreciate janus and mary catherine i think you know one of the reasons that the audits went so well is because of their really incredibly objective and thorough approach uh they developed a really great audit plan from the beginning which is what allowed them to go to so many schools in such a short amount of time so they were exceptional communicators and collaborators i think the weekly meetings were very very effective i appreciate the call out to both natasha and juniper i know they worked very hard and anything that came up that looked resolved very quickly and i did not receive any phone calls from chance so that made me feel good so uh really great job uh janice and mary katherine all right thanks dan uh we appreciate getting a snapshot as i'm sure a lot of parents and staff who are sending their kids into schools appreciate that um director to pass yeah i want to jump on the appreciation bandwagon um it's not only you know mary catherine and janice who did an amazing job but the entire school central office staff that had something to do with the logistics of putting air filtration in place take removing furniture identifying symptom rooms um communicating to building administrators like all of that went well for this to happen to for the end result uh end up with an audit that's that's really this clean so i just want to thank everyone i can't name everybody but um or remember everyone but thank the staff that had involvement um with with the success of this um this this spot audit i call it um i only had one question and that was about the clarification about the windows um if we find out that the symptom spaces need ventilation will that require some of those rooms a shift in some of those rooms and then a bigger question is do we know we might not and they don't want to add more stuff more more time or attention but do we know which buildings have operable windows and which ones we don't and if we don't know is there some inventory or something happening at some point you want me to answer that janice yes please thank you okay um i'll i'll double check i believe there is draft guidance that's going to go out about the windows and i believe what it says it's not required for them to be open it is beneficial for them to be open if that is appropriate in that in that situation but um i'll double check that and make sure that that everyone on the committee sees that as well i want to make sure i'm not getting incorrect um and as far as the we don't have a like a building by building inventory of the windows what we do have is our work order system identifies when there is a work order for windows and those are considered a high priority and so i know i looked at the data quite a while ago about windows but that was
00h 25m 00s
one of the highest priority work orders so when those come in those so um after i wrote this report i do know that juniper natasha did have the opportunity to go to the building the safety committee um and chat about the windows so i know it's being worked on the the concept of whether or not they're required and everything so you know i one of the issues with issuing an interim report means that everything is not always resolved at the time and there's still a few outstanding questions but i didn't want to like not put that recommendation in there because it was something that i felt needed to be addressed sooner rather than later and they are definitely working on it and i'm confident that guidance will be sent out asap great and that's the type of thing that um you can't just fix over overnight or just like flip the switch um so great to have that just in progress so that when we get to our full reopening um everybody's clear on what the guidance is uh director nasa did you have anything else or is that no that was it um and and thank you um dan for providing that feedback um about the the outcome of this and the quality that was put into this audit uh the scope jackson and parker did you have anything related to this uh yes i had one well sort of two quick things one was again just um you know appreciating janice and mary katherine um you know i've i've been hearing i've been getting regular updates about this uh audit i know it's a ton of work um and they've been very thorough and then also some appreciation for the the building level staff um you know obviously our schools weren't built with symptom room facilities so getting that all set up is remarkable um and then janice i had a question that was just sort of to gauge um i guess where things are at um are there any current um outstanding um the word isn't findings the words escapingly what i'm looking for but at outstanding time um just because of what the word finding means something yes yes until we're concluded yeah yeah sorry any outstanding uh concerns there so on the shared worksheet there are some that have not yet been resolved but there we are working on them and um nothing that would make me want to bring that to anybody's attention so so far so good and um also just so thanks for saying thanks to me but i also want to say thanks to you and parker jackson because they have met with me every week and i go over the results of what we're seeing at each school with them and i um and i really respect their feedback you know getting that student input because this is really affecting them and so just the idea that they let me run and brainstorm all these ideas and um you know one of the things that i try to do is ask them how they feel about the level of significance of some of the items that we identify as we go and i try to help let what they say guide me as to whether or not something is significant so i really appreciate that student input jackson do you have anything all right uh well thank you jackson and parker for uh injecting a student's uh perspective into the process it's super super important um and i'm sure that um the schools have benefited so just in terms of this audit when at the next meeting and where we have committee reports um i'll share just a really short brief overview of this as an interim report make the uh memo available to everyone whether it posted the median and then roseanne if at the just few thinking to the future at the end of the school year when these audits are completed and there's a final report um i think we should ask to have a just short presentation um by janus of of the final audit report
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given it was on the board work plan yes but for this one this is just an interim and we can provide the status update and the good news yes i'm not sure people need to listen beyond the uh and we didn't find any material findings um which is great i will um just want as a scheduling note i will be out of the office for four weeks and so that presentation would could potentially be done by mary katherine if not it would need to be the first part of august okay we'll um work with you on how best to do that but i i do think it would be good to have it reported because i know there'll be a lot of concerns about the fall just uh for especially for families that are in cdl right now that want to hear you know sort of like what did you find um and then also families who have students in buildings right now so uh one might make sure before everywhere everybody needs how great the school district is doing right now good well we like we like those reports um okay um i'm going to do two things um just so that we'll have that we know what time we have to work with rosanna kara do we have any public comment no okay so i'm gonna cross that item off and then there's one other um item besides the secretary's state response which is the bond performance audit results and uh there was a sort of internal discussion about having a joint school improvement bond committee audit committee and the bond accountability committee have a joint meeting regarding the audit results from from the bond performance of it and um the summary is that won't be the spring but that that would be early in the fall is that again yeah that's correct we're expecting the initial draft towards the end of june and then there will be a few rounds of review uh before the final is ready for presentations probably august maybe even in september great so um we last year we did it separately um and this we talked about trying to do it all together so we have all the parties who either have a perspective of the bond or perspective of the audit uh from audit perspective participate at one time and so we can all get the value of the and the benefit from everybody's questions dan just one question so that's um do we that's about the sort of annual results are we still getting posted the sort of quarterly reports i know they're going to bac but correct so uh at the bac meetings we do updates in those uh updates on each finding and then those do also go to the board as well uh and they're on our website okay great any questions about that agenda item so that'll be it that'll be a next fall um item so the the last remaining and the largest item for today's audit committee meeting um relates to the secretary of state's audit and uh for justice history and january of 2019 the secretary of state um audits division produced a report it was on both portland public schools and the oregon department of education they had a number of findings and recommendations um the district had a very lengthy response and has been regularly providing updates and responses um our work was really divided the the pps portion of the audit was divided into two sections one the vast majority of it was um around staff related work and then there was one section for some reason the way it got set up was number 26 but there was a through f so it was really it was a multi part number um and so throughout this process we have been the staff has been providing quarterly updates and then the board provided and had a discussion and sent their updates at the end of in december of last year subsequently the um the auditors have this is one that nobody wants to come in midway through because we're almost done but there's lots of pieces to it the auditors have come back they traditionally do a review about the implementation and then issue a final report it's not a re-audit but it's but it is a comprehensive sort of final review
00h 35m 00s
so they came back in we provided the the information to them and then they submitted a series of questions about the data that was um and the information that was presented and today we have there's two pieces of information well there are several documents in the public docket there is um the staff um response which is it's in a big spreadsheet and we also have i don't know kara or roseanne could you read the name of the the two documents that are this there's the one whitehurst and then the second document just for the record of the staff response do you have that yes i think the document is sorry i have my book closed uh follow-up questions for pps okay um so those it's a big spreadsheet and that is all the staff responses to the staff questions and um given that this is the board audit committee um we are not going to review unless there's something in particular that somebody has a question that maybe we can put the question on the table and get it answered later but really that's staff's perspective um not so not really the board's work or the audit committee's work to um alter the responses from staff and then there's the other piece which is the board piece which we're going to go to next but before we go to that is there any um questions or comments on that document whose name roseanne just read or the whitehurst report my only comments are the links that are attached aren't clickable through board book or the pdf version so i'll just submit some questions around getting links to those yeah thanks for raising that jackson in fact megan i had that same question and megan i believe sent me a pdf version of um yeah roseanne if i send this to you it i it actually has been updated as of like the start of the meeting right so they should be clickable now jackson okay great that was my only thing and then also just for i think what was it recommendation five i just look forward to seeing the performance measures by department in the final budget great um i would ask that um kara if you could just like include that those two questions in in the minutes that would be great well one we have an answer to but um the second question that jackson had that's a great call out anything else okay um so the the second piece and the most substantive piece is the board the response to the follow-up questions um to to the board and based on the december meeting where there was an expressed desire by the board to have the audit committee um make recommendations and respond what what i did is i went through the document and asked a series of follow-up questions staff has provided some documentation and then made a recommendation some there is um no action needed because the sense that we've we've answered the questions and then there's a couple of questions where there's um still uh some information that's needed and i was going to try and [Music] uh if you give me a minute did i drop out of am i in here once no i made it twice i'm going to try and share my screen we'll see how good i can do that and if i don't have access to some of the links which i don't should i just request access to them are you able to click on the links in board book i'm able to click on them but some of them i don't have access to what do you mean like it says request or access denied so um
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no which ones they are jackson maybe you can send an email to me and we will follow up were those the ones that were referencing the executive session no the ones in the staff response that was posted to board book some of those links are don't allow access they're not public okay so one thing and um rosanna no this is kate um that all of the links that we provide to the secretary of state need to be public facing documents so if they are documents that um access is being denied because they have confidential information then we need to um remove whatever is confidential information and be able to provide responses that are um public facing or it may just be that they for some reason are um not not public faith not um access is being denied but there's no particular reason in which case we should just make sure that's fixed but all of our documents should be easily recommended or easily to anybody in the public to see how we responded so um this is where we get into a little bit of the um i thought the easiest way to approach this would just be to go through each section and i know um that uh jackson and parker i'm sorry you didn't have it um earlier i know michelle's this is won't be new to michelle the vast majority of it um but basically how it's set up is um the start of the section is basically all the links to the the audit the district response the secretary of state's auditor's response back and then basically we created a document in which all of the secretary of state's questions about the board number 26 about the board response are in this document and just so that everybody can follow along there's a color code um that sort of the black text is the secretary of state's the auditor's questions for us the red is my initial um comment about the about the the questions um sometimes it was asking staff for information or um if i had the information i just dropped it in or provided commentary and then uh staff went through provided links responses and those are all in green and then the the purple text is um my reflections on the um whatever staff had provided and also recommendations to the audit committee uh this is to be sort of an iterative process so um i think the easiest way to sort of run through these is um at a high level um so just summarize each one and then jackson you've already identified that you had some additions to my recommendations so i'm open to that and michelle and um parker uh you know i appreciate it if if you think um the recommendation misses the mark or that we're missing information that we should add something else um please let me know and if you're in agreement uh we'll leave it as the sort of audit committee um so the the status of the audit committee's um this is our called sort of collective uh response um so the first topic what relates to uh g and i am going to try and move us through this um so if we start getting hung up in something and i'm going to move us on and we can come back to it at the end but i want to make sure that we move through most of these i think it's pretty straightforward and i really appreciate staff taking the time to when we had questions about information to get it back
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um so the first question related to gbc and the auditor wanted to know you know what's been implemented what's under development and what is set for future development and we have had presentations over the last year on some portions of the gvc and it is uh listed here and then they also ask specifically about language arts math health science has been completed what we have here um on the on the screen and the green is some very specific uh points in time in which staff provided um an overview to the board and we had a board discussion about portions of the um the gbc um most often in julia yep um gvc stands for uh guaranteed viable curriculum correct i'm sorry that's okay all out i'm sorry with the well it's we it's um and so we have some very specific uh places where we had a new new curriculum or something that the the board in particular had been interested in that have been presented i know for me personally a lot of those were learning opportunities however it wasn't it's not a broad overview and um again we have limited time on our board agendas um and i do think that the curriculum elements that were presented to us were ones in which again either something was being developed it was new or the board had like requested a specific uh feedback um or a specific presentation on a piece of it and so um and the other question they'd ask is whether the district had been tracking feedback and in the response back from staff there wasn't any evidence that the district was tracking feedback so the recommendation um a series of recommendations and uh dr valentino i welcome so your your comments as well not just the audit committees um that the staff provide the board of the comprehensive written report just outlining um the status of all such all grades in terms of development and implementation and any data and feedback on the gbc again we have where the development of some components were presented to the board but the specific recommendation was was the um the board's awareness of the implementation of sort of all subjects all grades and what sort of tracking had done and maybe before if before any committee members ask questions or make suggestions we um ask dr valentino if he has any comments or um so thank you yeah thank you uh uh director medwards um and hello again everyone so when you think about the gbc you think about it in three areas one is standards based a scope and a sequence uh units of study and lessons that are actually applied in a classroom the second part of that is the professional development that goes with it so the teachers can actually teach applying those strategies and the third one is that we have the curriculum available for them so as we've gone through these past three years the first the first phase was just to standardize instruction across the district so we had over time been presenting to the board as we were developing the content areas language arts math and science were the first three that go back three years and then we were developing the units and the lessons that was sequential so that happened the second year and with that were agreements on what are the what are the practices that we're going to use in the classroom that required professional development of teachers and site administrators so we were hoped we were you know our our interest was to report on all of that as it was happening but the fact of the matter is as uh director berm edwards says the only limited time that you have so we try to sample uh hoping that as we sampled math language arts it would be understood that across all disciplines the attempt would be to approach it in a very similar and comprehensive way and so the when when in our own response here to the asks by by the state it was really about being able to capture the phases as well as understanding that the last phase is really the curriculum adoption that barely got started a couple of months ago and so once we put that piece in place all of all of those three elements that
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i shared with you would work together as we continue building and evolving part of that then becomes the feedback loop that we really were not really comprehensive in building a formalized uh feedback loop about how to how teachers were doing with the implementation how principles were doing with leading the work and that is something that we were gonna that we're gonna have to formalize and incorporate into every subject area pre-k12 because our work is pre-k-12 across all disciplines so you can imagine how big that is and so feedback loops across all of those will need to be formalized and we're working with russ's department to begin to think about how do we create a framework just to evaluate our progress our progress not the progress of the students or the teacher our progress enrolling not our gbc so um thank you let me see if i can summarize what i um this with the status based on what you just said is that um we've standardized curriculum there's units there's scope and sequence and that's completely done but the actual materials adoption is just starting and the feedback loops haven't yet been developed oops you're on mute apologies there there are some feedback loops in place they just haven't been formalized in a comprehensive way so we're understanding about math because now we have programming that we can actually apply the curriculum as well as the strategies that now align we have preliminary feedback loops around that right from our teachers uh we're now looking at science to create the feedback loop around that but what we want to be able to do is to have just a system for evaluating every aspect of our instructional work so that it is comprehensive but more important that it's integrated and not spotty which is what we have right now yeah so i think um what would be helpful to me and i ask other board members but instead of a long um report just a grid that has um the the grades and that and the um content area with the like a yellow red or green or green yellow red um so that we would see uh both of like whether the curriculum exists whether the adoptions have happened and whether the feedback loops are in place and by asking for that the expectation is not that say you have a whole sheet that uh like a chart that is all green um but that we can see where where we are on each in each of those areas does that make sense yes and and i'm sorry i was actually taking notes so yes no it does because not only will it facilitated for you as a board when you have questions but for the general public as well to actually see very clearly the progression of how that works yes yeah and i don't think there's a wrong answer but i um what from the board's perspective is just we need to be able to see um where we are so where do we have formalized feedback loops you know where do we still need curriculum to be adopted or and implemented but just again a very um simple um i don't say dashboard even just like yelp green yellow red um where things are so that we we have we have that and can track that i say i think the areas where we need to take a deep deeper dive it's there um michelle jackson parker i don't have anything to add but i think it's a good idea i like the idea of having a visual presentation um just a snapshot of where we are whether something has been implemented if it's in progress or if there's still work to do um i'd find that also very helpful um somebody mentioned maybe valentino uh a graph um so yeah i don't think it needs to be a long report but it would be very helpful to have a some type of a representation so we can see where we're
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at so i will be modifying not the comprehensive written because this isn't an exercise of staff greeting a lot of new material more here's just a snapshot of where we are parker and jackson i guess just um one little thing and this might have been touched on um i think luis you mentioned uh working with um dr russell's department around tracking implementation um is that in the form of sort of performance measures um or is that just uh like a like a data uh tracking system i was wondering just if you could talk more about that right because in this particular phase we're looking at our own implementation so key performance indicators uh would be the first step which would be identifying what are the objectives in this aspect of the work in our delivery of curriculum adoption and so as indicators what are what are the things we're hoping to accomplish and to say in math it's fully implement adopted and implemented in science it's fully so what would tell what would tell you right uh as uh director of edwards indicated what would tell you on the scale um the degree to which we've accomplished that so you know project management you can actually space it and say in in one to five why are you on that scale five fully implemented one being not yet so where are we in that right and so or in progress completed that sort of thing so what we want to be able to do is create like a dashboard that has those markers that will tell you as a committee member where are we in in the full implementation of whatever the objective is inside of a set of goals and so it so that that's how it would play out um for students obviously it's performance data but we're not looking at that we're actually looking at just our performance indicators and the implementation of our guaranteed and viable curriculum okay and then i guess once you get that uh system more more set up um with russ i'd be interested in uh hearing a little more about it but that's down the road i think a little bit yeah that's work over the summer okay and i have a i'm wondering if you set that up similar to a gantt chart so where on your x-axis you had either a milestones or or dates of completion or status of completion um and your your y-axis would include the subject matter um by grade or something and that way it could be updated it could be dynamic rather than a static uh document in word for instance it's a little bit harder to update yes okay definitely and so it would be good to sort of share back uh uh more concrete uh actions and and and what it could look like to the with this committee and and then with the board as well um so that we can all come to agreement on what that could look like because then that will help move it faster yes we can do that dr valentino and say this isn't meant to be an exercise that takes stuff um a significant amount of time i'm sure you you know um probably in your head like where we are in most of these content areas by grade level and i think we could capture something pretty quick that is a useful document for the board but not time-consuming uh for staff um i want to keep us moving um just i had one thing go ahead um i just wanted to make sure that it was public like once we have this together um i know julie already mentioned sorry director brandon edwards already mentioned that um so just making sure that happens and then um i'll follow up with later but just i wanted to know more about what the feedback loops are looking like thank you jackson um the next item is around the comprehensive assessment system referred to in our response and director director berman words um danny ledesma is here to answer some questions on contracts and there's an overlapping meeting it would it be possible to i know that you're trying to go in a certain order but to address this portions that she may be able to answer some questions while she's here yes sorry i'm a very linear person thank you
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i think it's f director bran edwards yeah so but what page is that um i think you're on e so a little bit further down okay right here okay um so this was a question about so is there um just i want to use it given how much we've got to go through i want to just make sure that um because we have a lot of information here from uh emily cortnidge i want to make sure danny that whatever information specifically you you want to speak to we sh you should um speak to that and i don't know if it's number three where your name is um or somewhere else um but we can go ahead and take that um right now and then we can go back and the rest of the order and we don't have to go through all the contracts information um just the portion that you want to speak to sure uh i just wanted it to be really clear that um in addition to myself the contract manager the folks on my team the superintendent the chief of systems performance our program evaluation manager and many team members on that team all review contractor performance we require contractors to turn in a quarterly reports and we've been we've included that requirement throughout the pandemic which is uh really outside of what everyone else is doing multnomah county is not required the same level of reporting um and other private funders have not required that same level of reporting so we've really kept our oversight consistent even though we're in the middle of a pandemic um we share our contractor performance at our quarterly convenings where the superintendent convenes all of our contractor partners all of the superintendent's leadership team and the principals of the schools we have a data review portion of each of those meetings where we look at the contractors information in aggregate as well as share themes that are coming out we also have a brief a more brief conversation uh in small groups where folks are talking about what's working what's not working in terms of qualitative uh data and ways that we can kind of have that continuous improvement we also publish all of our results so starting with the second quarter you can go to our website under the partnerships page and we have each of our strategies outlined we have the amount of investment as well as the uh contractor by contractor performance in each of the strategy areas um uh and so i wanted to make sure that folks were understanding that in terms of can i just kind of just i think we're going to try and do is capture what you just said and drop it in here along with the link because i think that's super responsive to um what we want to put in here so and then i would say that this year's funding allocation was um allocated not only through an rfp process but the rfp was uh was based on a comprehensive review um something short of an evaluation but a redesign where we um outlined a resj investment strategy document that strategy document outlined the five strategies that we'd invest in uh it described the best practice in terms of a literature review that was done and our reporting is tied to the the literature and the fidelity to those strategies that are are outlined in the investment strategy and i don't think you have anything like that throughout the rest of the district um in a memo that we shared on october 5th we outlined all of our performance uh metrics uh we also have shared our both our both our report template in terms of the quantitative data that we require as well as the qualitative data where we're asking our partners to reflect on that and that is not only reviewed by myself as i said but we do that in partnership with the office of systems performance dr christine pitts and dr russ brown as well as their team members uh all review these uh these things they've also set up meetings with their contractors in between uh reporting where we're going through we're asking questions we're getting a better understanding of how they collect the data making sure that we have common definitions and common norms for reporting um i would say that performance is just one piece of evaluation tool for for renewal and certainly this year is an unusual year and so i don't think that we would look at performance we would want to set any type of baseline for performance in this year because of virtual uh virtual practices our partners were have been extremely creative and innovative in providing uh this uh level of performance in a pandemic
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however it's not necessarily it's been something that's been much more improvisational as opposed to tied to best practice in terms of virtual service provision it's something our community-wide that we've been learning um but we have been working in really close con uh close partnership with multnomah county who issued a report on how to uh uh they they worked with uh nw nor uh at northwest that's right uh to look at what our best practices virtually and our partners have been sort of uh aligning to that but um so performance is one indicator we are in conversation with our partners with a coalition of communities of color and other looking across programs across the state and across the country to see how we can have a larger evaluation framework the plan best laid plans were to sort of start that and baseline this year but of course we can't because of the unusualness of the of the um of the of the year so we are not going to set baseline uh for performance metrics for this year we'll we'll sort of use the first full year of in-person service to be able to set that baseline to then be able to uh develop a stronger uh evaluation framework i will say that in conversations with my colleagues across the country uh they have they have said that they haven't seen any type of rigorous evaluation or rigorous reporting in the way that we do um and conversations with evaluators from the state ode um they have said that they haven't seen anything like this in the state in terms of our oversight and the performance that has happened in the redesign and i would say that in talking to folks who who question our investment and culturally specific providers and black led organizations and latino led organizations and organizations led by people of color who are partnering with us there's a lot of questions around the level of scrutiny that these organizations are getting despite the fact that we're very uh very proactive in publishing their results and there hasn't been the same level of scrutiny with other types of organizations with private uh entities that we contract with for similar services this is really unlike anything else um and so i'd say that we're we're in terms of these sets of questions i feel like they've been asked and answered uh we've been we've been working on this very diligently our partners have been working on this really diligently and we are we're completely showing lots of daylight in ways that they're working with us uh and seeing lots of results um and tied to uh tied to a framework uh that is you know that has has been sort of research driven as well well we really appreciate you coming here and sharing this and we um hopefully this will be the last set of answers to the um secretary of state's audit so that once we submit this we can i think share the work and the information you just provided um which hopefully will answer the secretary of state's um questions that they raised from 2019 i would ask um roseanne [Music] could you get from danny or danny provide to get that so that we can include the link of the october 5th 2020 um outline of the performance metrics so that we can add this in because i think with that um and the other information that danny provided and that emily provided we should have a comprehensive response yes i i wanna before we move on um acknowledge what danny said and something that was buried in what she in her response thank you danny if you're still on the call and that is the level of scrutiny that efforts that are led by communities of color and organizations headed by or led by people of color the level of scrutiny and it's something that might be buried uh in in all of our work but i know this to be true and so danny i appreciate you bringing that up i know this is true um organizations that serve communities of color have additional scrutiny on them and stick out like a sore thumb in in oregon so i i appreciate you bringing that up so um maybe in our response in fact we we give a lot of air time to racial equity and social justice and our work this our res j work is embedded in how we show up and the work that we do and this is one this is this little one piece is where we can show up a little bit differently if we are in fact supportive of um racial equity and social justice work in our city in our district in our state we can we can show up differently this way and we can we can push back on the level of scrutiny that this in this particular area let's um
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as we incorporate our feedback uh to the secretary of state's office let's incorporate that theme and message in our communication back does that work anything else jackson or um for parker before danny dashes off to her next meeting okay thank you danny i really appreciate that and hopefully we'll be able to faithfully capture all that information you provided um i'm going to go back to the and rosanna cara if at all possible to somehow um i took notes but i don't i'm not sure i got it all if we can capture that to be able to include this the meeting we're going to move uh pretty quickly because i'm just looking at the time here um so julia i don't know if it would be helpful or not but i was able to get through a b and c with um director to pass as well as jackson and parker so if you like that so let me ask the world of the committee can should can we um go through that or do you want to go through the group maybe if we just go through the recommendations because i do have a couple other comments okay okay so um on number two sorry this is just a dense document um so i'm sorry what number did you say jackson where we left off is up just one more we were talking about the comprehensive yeah right there so um the um the district doesn't the response does not provide the comprehensive assessment system that was referenced um so the recommendation is that um we get a response if there if there isn't one um that's a that's a response but we should but it does say in the initial staff response that there will be one um on page 24. any any comments on that one or should i move on to the next recommendation okay and i think we should just be clear these are not questions that we came up with rather they're questions that the secretary of state ask us and so these are our responses then um okay this is a question about climate and the district response was around um the panorama and which is which does a district-wide building by building climate survey and this speaks to um more that the recommendation of making visible what board members would have access to um and how that's how that's done um that so the broader community has visibility to the feedback loops from principles on building a district climate um and how that access would be made available again to the broader the broader community and if it if it is available um roseanne i don't know who this is for the from a staff level but if it is already available some way to the broader public we should just note that and i think um we don't need a lot of further action but as far as i know you can only access it access it if you've had training and you have the access password so uh i think i think i might mention this that there will be a public facing um dashboard of some sort for families uh at the end of may or beginning of june um it won't be the raw data but it will be uh results that families can see and that will run our website and one other thing i just wanted to mention is that the cbrc requested that it be
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given to them earlier so they can help guide their discussion with the budget with this qualitative data as well is there an issue roseanne with them getting access uh i would need to talk to brenda martinic to find out how that would work but my my guess is there would be some sort of training first required like you haven't required like uh we're requiring board members also to be true yeah i was going to say i haven't got had my training um i think sorry the concern was also that it was being presented in june when we are submitting our recommendation in early may so just like pushing it forward a month would be helpful and that's a that's a good point jackson i'm not quite sure how or why the timing is the way it's it's landing but i'll definitely find out if that's a possibility or how the cbrc could utilize some of that feedback yeah and then i just had a question for director de passer director bram edwards in b1 it says that they'll be scheduling an opportunity for a small group introduction in late may um where in late may have you guys been asked to for small groups yet we have mine was supposed to be today or yesterday uh or last week um i we're still scheduled planning it i don't know about i have i have attended a training uh as of last week i believe um but i hear your point about the order of operations here it would be very helpful to have this have had this uh in april so feed in to feather into the the budget process um okay so moving on to this is um a question around the original audit had a lot of information about um principal and teacher turnover um especially in high poverty schools um have we received data this was there was a link in the pdf that i couldn't open so there there may be data there but to date i haven't seen any data so i had just done as like sample chart of what could what chart could look like that would give us very clear data on both uh level of tenure and retention in our high poverty schools along with average teacher experience which is a data point that's available um and if this if the information's is provided in the staff document which i couldn't open we may not need this but otherwise we haven't received any data that i'm aware of that's very specific to the high property schools yeah my one request was just to have it expanded to all schools just because i want to see if it's a trend across all schools not just um high poverty schools and then also i think in the question that references low teacher experience i was wondering if we could include teachers in this matrix as well instead of just administrators so that's what the far right column is so that data is already reported i think on the school report cards the average years of experience of teachers in the school so that that's an easy drop in um one of the things i will say jackson is that um for right now i think we have to focus on um what we were asked um and i think it's a great it's a great question and a question that i think um i'll be interested to see whether that's something the superintendent's um strategic plan about sort of retention at all schools because leadership sort of uh sustained um leadership across you know at schools across across the district is really important i think for this particular piece um i want to answer the question that they ask if that's okay but let's hold let's hold on to your question and maybe roseanne you can let us know if that's something that's contemplated in the strategic plan um and then the second piece of it they um the initial audit had a whole section on what they call it initiative overload and
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so it's it's not clear what initiatives have been reduced or eliminated so some sort of report but report probably is sounds more substantive than probably is needed versus just a list are people okay with that um okay okay the next point in time there was supposed to be um a um this is around um some of our struggling schools the district response was that um there was an executive session on may 11th and then a bargaining session and again sort of in spirit of being able to provide documentation of what's actually happened we can't really use what's in an executive session because that's obviously not a public facing um uh document or there's no public facing materials so director berm edwards the powerpoint that was attached was shared in the uh bargaining session with p-a-t that was live streamed so it can be used since it has been made public great thank you roseanne um so i'm just going to note that sap has posted [Music] and so the probably the the one piece is i know what in that presentation is that that would be a maximum of eight schools and um the question is sort of scope and so say that is something we get in bargaining that sort of timing and sequence that would this would be that tool that would be used um and so i can take out um does that work for everybody and that that link right there is the link to that presentation and since roseanne says it's public then that link works yeah the only thing is um it it doesn't it describes what a zone school is it doesn't actually describe how you're gonna how like the scope and the the sequence and that you'll be able to get all of them so just one more click down um okay the audit action plan was the board briefed on it um this is i think a pretty easy one yes we were um briefed on it we co-created uh this with the uh with the staff team and um and it's been posted and utilized and it was shared actually with the secretary of um state so good partnership with staff on that um [Music] okay so the question here was about um on this on this one was about um potential savings area in the budget and benchmarking and um while that hasn't been presented to the board so um a requesting staff to provide board with the written analysis for potential savings in the 2122 budget and it appears um that if you look at this the staff report that they've done the work it just the board just hasn't seen it so when when i look at the staff report it's included in that but it's just not in the it hasn't been provided to the board and then um another recommendation that the benchmarking reports be presented the board with the budget as a tool to make comparisons across the districts so the one time we've had at least benchmarking presented to the board it appears from the staff report that there is benchmarking happening it's just not um being presented to the board with the budget and that so the pres the recommendation is to present that at the same time as um we get the budget presentation so that we can actually use as a tool during the budgeting process
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any anything on that i'm going to take it people that you take your mic off if you've got something to add and just jump right in otherwise i'm going to keep moving but please interrupt me um okay the student conduct and discipline one thing sorry the staff report the link does not work the draft student conduct and discipline policy staff report does not work okay i'm not sure i'm just going to be directing these comments too is it roseanne or is it kate or somebody else i'm writing them down yeah we'll note it and fix it okay um sorry one other thing and i think it was number one it says the link about um student discipline and behavior we haven't reported publicly 20 1920 or 2020 2021 data on this um for the reason of we're in a pandemic so it wouldn't be comparable to past years i feel like yeah of course it won't be comparable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be reporting that data um so i'm wondering if we have that data and we're just not reporting it or we're not even collecting it so jackson will you write that question and send it to rosanna and i and we will get an answer all right sounds good um great um so we we actually have done a fair amount um until the pandemic the policy committee had done a lot of work with a ton of community engagement with parents and staff around central office staff around the student conduct and discipline policy we have a draft the data annually is uploaded in the website the one thing here that there is a question about the behavior collaboration team and the staff response said that it's no longer meeting and it's being replaced by a reimagined um discipline team i think what is what it is um so the recommendation is the staff share like whether that team because they said they were going to inform the board whether that team met you know and when it met and what was learned and as well as what is what is it's been replaced with with any changes to that okay [Music] so this next one is about tracking information and analysis of teacher and principal issues with student discipline practices and um we we don't see that that the board has been and it may be occurring but we don't see the board has been supplied with the tracking information so this is a request for staff to provide that to the board any issues okay um so this next one is the board of the board committee discussed and been briefed on student discipline data explosions in the suspensions and discussed it um the recommendation is the board should schedule a discussion once the staff has provided the board with the tracking information and analysis so my guess is that would be later in the summer next fall any issues with that recommendation my own my only recommendation for this is again flagging it as something um that would be important to have diverse representation on the decision making body level and and then this is another area where um racial equity and social justice show up quite handily and yeah so i'd like to just flag that as an issue that we should we should track um uh outcomes and you know who who's in who's making decisions and what expected outcomes are et cetera i didn't make very much sense i think that this is an issue that where our racial equity and social justice work shows up um and we need to just be aware of that that that discipline policy is disproportionately impacts black and brown people in our system and therefore we should just flag that as something that we want to be mindful of
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if that might go up a couple where it was talking about the behavioral team which is being replaced with the reimagined discipline if yes where you're looking to make sure that there's a diverse representation on that yeah yes that that that too i just as an example um yeah we just i think i think that's important to just to be very clear and very mindful of who's making decisions um for for our st our student body uh so i'm going to just make a note about moving the text in genesis i'm going to look to you um to work with michelle on where we're going to move that does that work i think that's a great argument recommendation i will say in this particular area chinese did an amazing job with um uh family and parent engagement on this issue to inform our policy i mean it's it's the policy work was great it's just we're still waiting we need to um finish our bargaining and our conversations with pat but there there was on the front end really deep engagement with diverse parents who had experience their students had experience with um discipline practices um at pbs uh let's see the flowcharts um if you click on the links it's um no the determination is no additional action needed that that is responsive to the questions um and the information that was requested um so what i want to do is go back through here we're now in the contract portions of the um of the the response and in addition to the secretary of state's audit we also just overlaying on top of everything else we had a contracts audit um as well and what i'll want to do is incorporate the information that danny shared today and the links so that anybody could go in and look at the link of the contract performance and click click on um to those also this is i believe this is where that october's fifth presentation or document um with metrics should be added director edwards i've gone ahead and shared those with you i've sent them to both you and kara so you have them okay um thank you so we've got additional responses um so on this recommendation at the bottom of page nine um we are i believe the board is somewhat caught between the secretary of state's request of how they would like us to do something and what the district practice is um and the district has changed the practice so instead of saying we're going to just do what the secretary of state tells us to do i'd like them to look at the information that staff has provided and then um i say instead of trying to change our practices to comply with the secretary of state's audit our staff has already done a number of things and i think we can ask for a recommendation on best practice given the staff response but i don't i don't want us adopting a whole new practice just based on their recommendation from two years ago because there's been a lot of work done since then does that make sense it does i'm can we just communicate that to them that can that can that serve as the response i'm sorry what what can can we respond to them saying you know this is it's been two years since the audit this is what we've done um and tell them that i don't know i do we need to respond something back to them but can we provide a little bit of pushback
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um how much pushback can we we can the one we have to say this doesn't this doesn't work for us um yes to extend we probably need to look at what we said we were going to do also in and and what staff said they were going to do and just make sure that we're um not saying now that we don't want to do what we said we were going to do does that make sense um and in light of the significant amount of um work and the the contracting was primarily on personal service contracts non-competitive contracts and student-facing ones so it is also is broader um so for example the contracts that danny is referencing um those are all the results are listed but that's not the case for our other contracts so we'll just need to make sure that um the um that we're just being comprehensive and how we respond okay and i think number four the recommendation um danny this will be danny's response of the who's reviewing annually specific metrics and outcomes um we have that i think i saw roseanne sent it through um on the 150 the non-competitive contracts under 150 000 um again this is a space where staff is in disagreement with um the secretary of state and um they were um some of the contracts in which they um pointed out that the board should have more oversight work for contracts under 160 000 we 150 000 we made the case that the board wouldn't see those because they're under the amount their recommendation is the board looked at them and um we can't we can um get a you know a recommendation best practice given the response uh that's from secretary of state and just because they um recommend something that i think it's only a recommendation it's not a something that we actually would have to do if we disagreed with it but again i feel like there's a space where we're caught between what the secretary of state has recommended in their audit and what staff um wants wants to do although i feel like they have offered here that they could provide some contracts if we if there was an interest on a less regular basis is this the bucket of contracts that danny just was talking about that get heavy scrutiny because like well it's under 150 000 and they're going to culturally specific organizations is it disproportionately aimed at those organizations or is it across the board contracts under under 150. it's like everything from a dj for a middle school dance to i mean you know the contract for um this the strategic plan it's it's any contract in the district any of them like at a middle school i mean just school-based contracts it's everything under 150. and the the scrutiny that the um the ones specifically that the secretary of state pointed out were ones that were student support um contracts and some of them were um culturally specific organizations although not most of them because most of them are act most of those are actually over 150 000 um that's what i mean that you anyway i just want to make sure that that we are equally scrutinizing contracts and if if 150 thousand dollars are two culturally specific organizations that we are aware that we're providing this extra level of scrutiny on those contracts maybe
01h 40m 00s
without other you know we're nobody's looking at a contract to send the kids you know to vienna uh for violin lessons so i just as long as it's equally applied the scrutiny is equally applied i'm happy with the recommendation um yeah so what how i'm trying to think if you were on the board michelle i think when you were when we started getting can't even remember when i started i'm so tired yeah well and i want to just be cognizant of the time here because we're over um we did get them and um it was just everything it was like running a um a data um sort for anything under 150 000 so we we saw them all like i say it would be the trip to vienna and the um you know just for success you know at a particular school or the middle the dj like literally there were a lot of djs um so again i feel like that's an area that where's the board is sort of caught between the staff and i think staff has presented a you know alternative um that i'm having a hard time moving my screen here and that must be like a sign that we probably should wrap up but i can't is this the very end no yeah that's the end that's why i can't go any further um so on the last um the last item which was performance of contractors operating alternative schools um you know no further action needed on that because there is um we've got the documentation that shows that we've we've done that um at a macro level is there any other issues people want to raise um my preference would be if we have smaller issues that um or sort of one-off issues or editing issues that people send those to me directly can you send an updated copy of this with all the edits we've done during the meeting to us yes um i can do that roseanne can we put this on a google doc that people have access to uh in terms of version control or having everything in one place can i figure out a way to do that that keeps in the spirit of public yes yep that's what i'm asking you okay if the answer is we'll figure something out the answer to jackson is yes and so um i'd love to get um i think at a high level we have sort of general agreement on um a point of view and that i will make some of these revisions and um get it all um sort of bundled up for uh to send off along with the along with the staff document which again we should just be clear that like we haven't reviewed that in detail because that's a staff response versus the questions directed at the board um before we conclude i want to give any of the staff who've been on the call an opportunity to if there's anything we need to add or questions you have about the next steps okay any last questions concerns from any of the committee members okay and i really appreciate this is a very dense um document but hopefully this is the last step in the process uh for um this audit um that we had from the state and um i know there's been questions about whether we should take it seriously um because it's their opinion and if you've seen the documents that they do in their final report i think we should take it seriously and be responsive um to we if we disagree we can state that but um they definitely will be issuing a final report and um we want peop the the good work that's occurred to date um to show up in that final report
01h 45m 00s
thank you for making this so uh digestible um that spreadsheet was really difficult to read i don't know it's like four font or something once i printed it out so this was very helpful well i think janice for removing it from a spreadsheet to a word document and then again you know i still the color coding is not ideal but i think i think we should have be able to have a process by which somebody could go through and most importantly the auditors and see um what our response is and so thank you everybody for going through a rather tedious exercise but one that we definitely needed to go through and thank uh janice on the auditing team for um assisting with this as well okay uh thank you everybody and i apologize that it ran ran over um this evening but i think we're at a point where we can get it over the finish line without another meeting great thank you thanks everybody


Sources

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