2021-02-04 PPS School Board School Improvement Bond Committee Meeting

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District Portland Public Schools
Date 2021-02-04
Time 16:30:00
Venue Virtual/Online
Meeting Type committee
Directors Present missing
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Event 1: PPS Board of Education's School Improvement Bond Committee 2 04 21

00h 00m 00s
this item up is just a quick round of introductions i'll just start with myself i'm michelle the past and i'm a pps board member and the chair of this committee did you want to go next amy sure amy constand board member andrew good afternoon andrew scott i use he him pronouns i'm a school board member thank somebody andrew sorry you scott you're up scott bailey board member not a committee member so i'm here to watch i'll just jump in julian edwards board number nathaniel tag i'm nathaniel a student up to the board uh senior jefferson and let's go jaya i'm jaya i'm a dsc member and a senior at madison um claire hi there i'm claire hurts i'm the deputy superintendent of business and operations roseanne uh roseanne powell i usually her pronoun uh i'm the board manager director of the office of school modernization dan hi i'm dan young i'm chief operating officer and staff liaison to this committee uh good evening everyone uh mr gray hello everyone my name is eric girding and i'm the senior project manager for the lincoln high school modernization jan hi i'm jan osborne she her i'm the director of career and technical education jim hi i'm jill ross i'm school business manager at lincoln high school i am peyton chapman the principal of lincoln high school and um happy black lives matter week in action week to everybody and black history month thank you for including us david uh communication manager for the bond program david warner hi everyone david roy cu director of communications for the district karen hello i'm karen we're seeing public information officer dr valentino good evening everyone luis valentino chief academic officer marina have you got for your next question you have d henderson derek henderson program support for the bond is there anyone that has not gone and introduced themselves thank you for those of you that used your pronouns um i'm gonna try to remember to ask us all to do that it's a matter of practice for me so thank you for those that did um without being asked we're gonna um dive into a proposed work plan for the school improvement bond committee um and this is in development now as a way to sort of organize our work out for the year it's it's a flexible document um it's not written in stone and in fact i already see some edits that we can make but i want to share that with everybody i don't know if you've had a chance to review that and would love to comment so you can see the items on the work plan um today that we'll talk about our today's meeting um we've got three things um teed up for march 4th with an additional um request from one of my um um to another meeting excuse me uh [Laughter]
00h 05m 00s
thank you this is just a follow-up uh michelle's referring to dan and marina and claire as a follow-up to the questions um you answered in the memo um um going with the cmgc versus design big build and seeing uh whether we're aligned with best practices in all of those areas and claire again really appreciate that um thorough memo and whoever else i'll pull that together but i think it's important for this committee to have a broader discussion there and um here where we have made improvements and where maybe we still can working yeah i appreciate that i think we also wanted to dive into um yeah but rather work as proactively as you can understanding that with with bond programs things do come up in real time so the the document itself the work then has flexibility but we wanted to lay out a quarterly sort of look ahead if you want to contribute to topics that we should cover i don't know dan if you have a proposed method about how we can help people contribute to this plan um if we want to determine a process that that that we can stick to much like our agenda built our agenda sessions for our main board meetings um yeah i think if it works for now we can keep it easy if committee members have uh topics or feedback feel free to send those directly to me and probably michelle as well uh and we're happy to accommodate and maybe what we can do is at these meetings uh or michelle maybe just share with you regularly kind of every time we have a meeting or beforehand or after hand just show an update of where we are so people uh know what we're covering at the meeting and then can display what topics are generally we think depending on the topic three or four items seems about right so there are a couple of um buckets of work that i would like to include and that i think probably will would be regular topics for us but one um dr valentino you're not going to be surprised to hear this one is to have conversation in this committee about our specs interest in reviewing and potentially revising our ed specs um with really leaning on the leadership of your team uh dr valentino and really making sure that we have a strong direction and presence from our academic uh and educational visionaries and that those um those values and dreams and best practices are reflected in our ed specs and i think you know our expects have served us well we sometimes run into um bumpy spots where uh we're sort of trying to fit a round peg in a square hole um but i i i look forward to having a conversation about what that thorough review looks like led by your team and led by to talk about at every single meeting or is this a three time a year conversation or is it a conversation that comes up in real time from the development process i don't understand
00h 10m 00s
like where where the development process we would want to talk about this or do we want to leave the work plan open enough to accommodate that conversation when it needs to come up okay that's kind of my understanding louise could you speak to whether or not you have ongoing conversation in your in your shop right now about uh where we might want to make changes to the ed specs because i i consider this fairly urgent work as we start moving ahead on um 20 development of 2020 projects we have even talked about with the passage of this year's bond do we need someone who is designated the designated liaison from the academic side of the house um on this facility's work and um i personally think that's really important dr valentino i'm interested in your thoughts and whether any of those conversations are happening and your side of things yeah you might not have gotten the link to that so over good evening everyone um over the past the expect conversation has occurred around benson has occurred around grant has occurred around kellogg um and so it it happens the conversations we have sometimes are after the fact about how can we make how how can we be involved more in the conversation to facilitate some of those things that we then later start complaining about from from happening and so um that's it's happened at that level but it has also happened at the level where um we are invited to be part of some of the conversations that take place uh around specific features of the uh the expec um but it's it's not an ongoing conversation um over the past year or two it's been aurora who's been uh you know more of the participant in a lot of that uh but we don't have a lot of conversations around it but i think we should because i remember when i first was introduced to them one of the things that i started questioning um was how some of these decisions aligned with the expected programming of the schools over years right um and that wasn't just around curriculum or cte or other things but even athletics right that the building is designed to evolve over time um and so it's great that it's coming up in this way because i we would love the opportunity to engage more around the expect um so that it can actually inform how how best to consider the evolution of the building as programmed between and the needs of students involved thank you so do you have a question i'm sorry um i just was going to say that i think we've already seen that to the buildings that we created under the first bond and where we've come from there you're talking about like a 50 to 100 year horizon but i think even just in the time since we we've built our you know roosevelt and franklin um we've learned a lot and yet we haven't we haven't made many changes we haven't gone back and revised what we've learned or what we what we think we can do better in our go ahead um director bailey um yeah and particularly when we look at k5 which not not up in the near future but looking out we saw some great innovative ideas for design how we design k5 classrooms and campuses that aren't ed specs in the sense of you know square foot or classroom but more around you know the idea of designing a classroom that had both open areas and also sort of little to get be visible but have a bit of isolation as well in that sense um those things aren't in our head specs but i think are really interesting design concepts around you know using principles of child development um so i i
00h 15m 00s
support a broader uh discussion here and i i think it's been really important around how our high school teachers have accepted you know the smaller areas and having your own classroom or not having your own classroom if we had more of a visionary process engaging our teachers which we had one notable session on that eight or nine years ago which really excited our teachers in terms of of school design i think we'd get uh more buy-in and more excitement about flexibly using those smaller spaces along with the larger classrooms yeah and um so the ed specs this is a rich discussion i'm interested again my understanding of the specifications is like a manual it's the set of rules you follow for finishes and room sizes etc i think you know covets gonna probably change the way we work and the way we go to school for you know for the foreseeable future and i would love to see um an intersection with dr valentino's team and the facilities team to get these conversations happening proactively and i also love the idea of including the teachers and the educators in the building um in this discussion so if we can i don't know make that happen that would be great and and i think that we should also as we're talking about the work plan add this conversation because there's a lot to say about it to the plan at some point i think our timing is good because it's a good time to get involved prior to anything actually being built um so if i can move us along a little bit to the next item unless this have we are are we done talking about the work plan or is there any other comments if there is um please feel free to to email um dan jung or or myself i think one other i'm sorry scott were you going to say something um i think one other big area that i'd like to see in our on our work plan and in our next um few meetings is to just um dive into the planning process excuse me for ida b wells high school and cleveland and our center for black student excellence and and talk about the engagement process um particularly for the particularly for the center for black student excellence and then um just the i don't know what we call it this next next level up from master planning for idb wells in cleveland but um i think that's something that we need to pay attention to here pretty quickly and kind of routinely touch in on okay so what i'm hearing is that we should talk about the what happens after the master planning that would be like the design and development phase and that we should plug those conversations into our work plan intervals time to talk about get a get a um extensive update and like did i capture your your thoughts yeah for yeah wells for cleveland and for the center for black student experts yep chair to pass yeah uh just two things and unfortunately i can't see the work plan because i'm having a tech issue um but two issues if they're not um already flagged is um the uh 100 that the 10 million dollars i wish it was 109. the 10 million dollars that was set aside for um middle school and other capacity issues in the 2020 bond and just looking at the potential open opening of another a middle school or conversion of a school in outer southeast to be a middle school and what the planning around that would look like in terms of any upgrades that need to be made to prepare the space for middle school students and then um the second thing is during the bond audit there was a notation on an updated map of all the health and safety and accessibility upgrades from the 2017 bond and just thinking back to the accountability measures that were built into the 2017 bond on the health safety and accessibility i know even though we're moving into the 2020 bond not to lose sight of that and be able to make sure that we can
00h 20m 00s
account for that um all the 150 plus 150 million plus spend on health safety and accessibility um so i'd love to see at some point and that doesn't necessarily have to be an agenda item where it's presented at the meeting but at least a report back out to um the board on that spin given we're in the fourth year of it okay excellent so you'd like to see where where the where the projects are by by percentage of spend or or and or percentage of completion yeah that there was a 150 million dollar at least 150 million dollars in commitment for those sort of big three buckets and so we're here we are in them and sterling was the focus of the campaign a big community focus so getting an update on that but both spend and and the extent of it um even more four years in okay and those were there were environmental concerns and um door and locking concerns i think was that yeah it was all the lead asbestos radon um security upgrades yeah right security there are whole packages identified improvements okay and dan aren't those called out in the bot in the osm quarterly updates um they're they're broken down that way yeah we provide information on the health and safety upgrades in the quarterly update um we show uh funding what's been allocated what's been spent um but we can highlight that we'll bring that back and we'll highlight that yeah there was also dan the interactive map that the auditors called out as something that just as a community tool to see where the uh health and safety improvements had happened so just getting an update on that yeah absolutely no problem okay um thank you for that i thought i've made note of your uh your request here to add the safety health and safety updates from the 2017 bond middle school capacity and an update on the planning process for the two high schools that are in in master planning um i'm not sure who's kicking off our conversation around the lincoln high school cta cte update um convenient excellent thank you i'll meet myself hey before we go there i have a question about that i was kind of wondering why this is on our agenda because it's not a change to the end specs this cte change right that's correct uh we are not going below the spec requirements nor are we going below the capacity requirements um but we know that those questions often come up when we change program during construction and so this is really just the situational awareness if you get it out in front of you progressively so that you um don't you're not surprised when you heard something and you'll have you honor the details of it from us so um we did provide uh just a a brief um memo and i'm not gonna go into a significant amount of detail but we do have people here if you have additional questions from the memo in general we are looking to add the audio engineering cte program to the lincoln high school modernization project that will change two general education classrooms to a single larger classroom this year and um as i mentioned before it's not going to put us below the expect requirements we were actually above them prior to this we also won't be going below the capacity requirements the cost at this point we have looked at ways to limit the additional cost we've got it to a point where we feel comfortable that we can manage that within our existing budget and we don't anticipate any issues with including this program during construction but i have eric garden here as the senior project manager if you have questions about the project itself and i also want to thank uh aurora and jan from the cte program who are available to answer questions of the cte portion it's just super cool it's gonna be great to have kids are super excited um yes go ahead scott what are what careers are associated with audio engineering and what's the outlook for those careers
00h 25m 00s
we see a lot of the audio engineering in the music production world and also in film and video um there's a high demand in the portland area not a huge high wage job but high demand in the portland area what's what's the sock code that's associated with i have to look that up for you scott and i'll i'll email me this this is an occupation that pops out um as a big number so i'd be interested to see the data thanks not as popular as an economist but i'd be interested yeah that i think that's going to be there this is definitely a director of one of the programs that has really high student interest and high demand so we definitely recognize that it's not high weight but huge student interest and opportunities we're happy to get that information it also aligns well with the digital media stuff that's already going on there also some of us had an opportunity to tour a school in nashville tennessee i believe it was about a year ago and they had a pretty robust kind of art and media engineering um studio uh program and it was wildly popular with the students and we got to um watch a video and sound production that they've done it was top of the notch um anyway i i think it's i'm excited about it i know at one point jefferson high school had one of the largest tv stations and also had a media television um program very robust program back in the day so yeah this is great i'm interested in hearing more about this as well did we have any questions about um this this programming besides the number of or we're looking for the stock is it the soft code or the sic code standard occupational classification seeing as there are no more questions our next topic is discussion of the bond accountability chair um and i can give a brief update uh we met last weekend as the bond accountability committee with four new members we introduced um our four new members to our existing members um had um an orientation to the work had a discussion about the responsibilities of the chair and as of this morning out of i think that i even know how many members we have 11 members we had no one interested in the chair position this morning but i'm happy to report that today this afternoon we do have we actually have two people interested they've decided to pair up um we've got someone who's retired that doesn't necessarily want to work full-time and we've got someone that has twins three-year-old twins who is already working full-time and so um anyway we've got tom peterson and kenichi um co-chairing the bond accountability um committee i think it'll be a really great pairing um with their with their expertise and experience one of them's been on the committee for a very long time one of them has been on for a few weeks and they're both um really looking forward to working together so are there any um are there any questions about um any of the work that we're doing on that committee um from a process standpoint do we appoint the chair does the committee nominate its own chair how does that work well we wanted to let the committee kind of choose a chair but the the processes the board needs to appoint a chair from my understanding great thank you and i think that's i think that means that i would repeat kind of what i said to you we've got two people that want to be the chair um they want to be the chair because we we called them and asked them if they would be
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willing to do this together and they both agreed and were excited about it um they're going to distribute the work and the leadership amongst the two of them and i think it'll be a good pairing again because we've got someone that's got 45 years of experience and someone has that quite a bit less than that uh it'll be it should be a very good um pairing a strong a strong team um for those of you who haven't heard we have four new members we've got um on the committee diversifying the company have added um two african amer american members to the committee um three women to the committee three people under 40 disability rights advocate um someone with expertise in technology and uh someone that has mwesb minority women emerging small business experience and so i'm really excited about um getting them um functioning well as a team that'll take some time but we're off to a good start as of last saturday i think the last thing we have here on our agenda is um an office of school modernization operational chart and i i'm not sure which staff is um it's a proposed organizational chart who who is uh teed up to to lead this discussion that would be me and the discussion is not so much about the organizational chart the question came up about program management for osm and i wanted to utilize the organizational chart to illustrate um my words as i kind of go along and make you through how awesome is organized and i think the question in particular was how we are organized between in-house staff and contracted staff and so i want to make sure that i'm i touch on those things as well so um yeah and excuse me marina can you also give a brief update about um there's some opening positions i think last time you reported there were some there was hiring in process if you could also include that in in your update happy to do that so uh the proposed part of this um is really just that we have a couple positions that we're going to be posting that we haven't posted so that's um this is this is final uh which is to say it's final once we actually close those those positions but then not all of them are posted yet some of them are so the the um organization chart just to give you a quick um breakdown of how it works the darker blue boxes are pps employees lighter blue are positions that are 2b filled the green are contracted employees osm is generally set up with program management at sort of a higher level so you'll see the first set of um boxes at the top are the program management books that includes our communication staff our director of construction our new senior manager of business operations and uh what we'll be bringing here in as soon as i can uh make the recruitment go through is the diversity equity and inclusion from the manager that's our program management then beyond that we have a project slash construction management staff generally all the folks that you see under gray box on the left side of the chart and we have operations staff business operations those are the people that work hard to support all of our project teams the question that was raised above program management i believe was raised because we used to have a contract that provided us both program and project slash construction management through cbr and fury and it was a a contract that had been in place for many years and encompassed most of the program we had a number of staff that came from that program that contract expired uh at the end of last year and as part of the process of reviewing how we would move forward with staffing in the future we made some changes to it so i'll talk about those changes i'm going to separate them out between program management and then project slash construction management for
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program management uh we intend to go out with an rfp for consultation services only really as needed hourly basis to help us with specific topics to get sort of expert advice when we're looking for additional um uh you know creative solutions about issues that we're facing from our overall program management so that includes you know processes um you know efficiencies how we're structured those types of questions we have not put the rfe out yet we are we do have a small contract um bridging us with one member of the program management from cbre curie um scott peral who many of you may remember was the program manager under the previous contract um he is bridging with us on a an hourly as needed basis um at most the end of june but it's primarily because we've brought on new staff and redistributed many of the tasks that he was doing and so he is training people and getting them up to speed so that we can transition him out completely um we do have a current contract he is still doing some more class but um not full-time and he starts the imagination probably not even much um uh closer to time even probably less than half time we for so that kind of addresses the program management aspect of it what we've tried to do is really beef up our in-house program management and bring in the kind of structure that'll allow us to do that with yes and we'll have to go out we do still see the benefit of utilizing outside consultants for you know other like i said other creative brainstorming or feedback we have one program outside consultants frequently have more than one and so they they can bring us so we should have been trying to multiple location now from the project management construction management standpoint are what we have typically done is utilized in-house staff for project management and typically we utilize contracted employees for construction management those are two similar but different roles the project managers oversee all pieces of the project the construction managers are really looking very specifically at construction quality um once we are under construction we sometimes bring them on sooner to look at design drawings and ensure that we are thinking through constructability issues to get them kind of up to speed particularly with cngc contracts but their focus really is construction it's a very technical field and it can be challenging for us within pps to provide the kinds of salary ranges to get high quality construction managers we also find that we sometimes need specialized expertise with construction managers so if we're doing projects related to say for instance our security projects have had very high focus on low voltage systems and it is challenging for us to go out and hire somebody short term specifically for global vintage knowledge but what we can do is we have a lot of flexibility when we go out to a contracted um project or construction management firm and we're able to bring somebody on generally pretty quickly with exactly the expertise we need to um complete that work for the benefit of the district so this has been our our typical process as far as setting up our project teams we currently have the one contract that was an extension um of services for the 2017 modernizations for cvr fury project or construction managers on those 2017 modernizations to be able to continue past the expiration date of the prior contract because continuity in those projects is incredibly important so you approve that in the fall those folks are moving forward beyond that for modernizations for 2020 we anticipate going out with an rfp um my expectation at this point is that i'll do an earthquake that will combine jefferson and the central classroom excellence i anticipate that there's going to be a
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significant amount of work um that the two teams are doing together and so i want to make sure that i have folks i can kind of shift back and forth between those two teams it's needed or work as an integrated team so i'll do an rfp specifically for construction management services for those two projects and marina when when would you anticipate um putting that rfp out it's actually going to be quite a waste down the road since we are not going to start our comprehensive master plan for jefferson until the fall of this year so um we don't often bring on construction managers until we are into at least design development phase of the design and we try to talk through what the complexity of the design looks like and whether it's worth you know whether there's value to us to bring on a construction manager sooner or later i don't think until we get through the comprehensive master plan we're going to have a good sense of when that should be because the comprehensive master plan will tell us a lot more about the design of the anticipated design of the building um marina i just want to say uh thank you very much because this is exactly the conversation that i was looking for um and it's really helpful information and it's really good to see the um the colors and the graphic representation because it does represent a big shift from um our our management in the past which was understandable at that time since we were just developing our bond program and now we not only have been in it for a while but we have reason to believe we're going to be in it for a long time longer even before even after our 2020 bond and one of the things that is really um important to me is that with more embedded internal capacity it gives us more of an ability to be the kind of owner that we want and need to be and to make sure that our our project management on the ground is aligned with our values as an organization and so it's really exciting to me to see all this blue with no no disparaging intended to those who have served us really well from um from gary or any of our external partners um but i just think this is this is an important step for this district because um we're we're in it and we've got you know over a billion dollars of play right now and um it's exciting to think about developing this this capacity um so thank you for putting this together thank you but i um i'm excited to move forward in this direction i think this is good for the district and um you know as always we strive towards continuous improvement uh to connect a little bit with the sorry marina i just i just wanted to echo in these comments as well i think and i think it's over two billion in play right with all the bonds together but i think you know it makes a lot of sense to contract out at a certain point and then as your as your program matures and then evolves and now given the plan with the passage of 2020 and you're planning for 2024 you know we've got a long backline and i just agree with what he said in terms of bringing bringing more of that in-house i think helpful so and this is a very helpful work chart so i really appreciate the information we do focus very much on developing our existing staff and finding opportunities for them to grow whether that means going into higher level positions or just means going into new scope of work you know varies on the staff and what they're looking for so i just wanted to make sure that i noted that too that even as we bring on new project managers uh it's not because we're looking to get rid of any of our existing project managers it's because we need them in addition to who we already have and so we spend a fair amount of time really thinking through what opportunities are available for our existing staff and how it is we might be able to best utilize their strengths and give them opportunities to grow in other areas as well um heading back a little bit towards the um project and construction management side of things i did want to note that for the non-modernizations um we have multiple contracts that we draw from and so shall
00h 45m 00s
we clarify a little bit about that our non-modernizations tend to be much shorter integration they are not necessarily defined years in advance in the way that our modernizations are we need more flexibility for those and we have quite a few different categories both from 2017 open safety but also from the 2020 bond uh that our non-modernization work and so just to note that we have uh four firms that were selected through an rfp for on-call master services three of those we've contracted with the fourth one um we continue to reach out to try and get the contracts um completed and we haven't haven't had success with them yet um but we continue to reject them so three of them you have seen come through for approval we also have um services we utilize from an rfe that was put together for um project and construction management for the water quality program the 2017 bond and we have um project slash construction management services we're utilizing from another firm from a master agreement um overseeing our lead paint abatement program for the 2017 as well so i want to note that there's um currently i'm gonna get my numbers right here um five contracts five different contracts in play that we're utilizing for these kind of um quicker projects and we anticipate continuing with that model of utilizing multiple project and construction management firms to do this type of work it gives us access to a lot of opportunities um for good applicants from each of the different firms that allows us to be a little more selective in who you choose to to do that construction management typically and so um it's been working out very well for us and that's how we anticipate being sure with that and i'm open for questions it's a lot of work to manage into sequence if there are other questions i'm just looking at my screen did we did we lose direct to japan i think we did oh i think she might have tried to come back in here i'm moving now i don't know if you can hear me now yes yep sorry about that i am having i'm having tech issues today i i can't i don't have a reason i don't have a good excuse for it just i'm popping off the meeting um i've heard a couple of things i i also wanted to echo what um director constance and and scott shared about you know building up this program and um that the org chart was helpful to see um how we're moving through you know hiring i was curious um and again my sound is popping my my sound is dropping off and i've dropped off a couple of times i didn't hear if you've covered this or not but do we use a single construction management firm for these um contract hires we do not and i i did go through um that we have quite a few firms that we're utilizing particularly for the project construction management side of things so it is um i i would say well spread out um there's certainly opportunities to spread it out and we're gonna be able to do that with addition excellent and then have we have we with those um i don't need to get to the nitty-gritty
00h 50m 00s
of you know if you have five firms and how do you how do you utilize them but have we shared our equity and contracting values with all of those um outside you know those contractors those vendors i guess i'm i'm not sure if i understand the question exactly um if they're if it's a question of have we shared our culture with them we absolutely have shared that um they of course have to know our equity and contracting requirements if they are going to administer those contracts so they are sure i guess i was i was yeah i was curious as to whether they're they're aware of our aspirational you know um participation rate and some of those details and actually would love you know to get an update it doesn't have to be every quarter whatever on on how well we're you know how close we're getting to those goals or if it's not us if it's these outside firms how how close they're following our how close they're getting to our aspirational goals our utilization rates are you asking if their contracts are subject to the aspiration rules well i think i think their contracts are i'm just i'm curious where where they stack up like if we were to evaluate how close they're getting to an aspirational rate um we can share that information we collect that information be happy to put together a report on that thank you um does anyone else have any other questions uh director depason did i realized when you came back home that she would ask for an update on our recruitments and i did not want to write that yes thank you yes i just where you are um where where you're at the hiring process and because of those vacancies that show up on the chart certainly um so we are we currently have active recruitments for senior project managers what we call our pm3s we also have active recruitments for pm2s our structure includes a pm1 a pm2 and a pm3 so just to give you the context of that um we are currently doing interviews for pm2s the recruitment is for two positions but it's actually an open recruitment we anticipate more pm2 positions and so we expect to be doing ongoing interviews for a while we have to sig actually each people currently that were i will be interviewing over the next couple weeks um the pm threes we are getting ready to set up the interviews we've identified the applicants have been really hard to interview and we are just starting to um find the times uh for those specific interviews and get our interview panel on board with their schedules to to do these interviews fantastic um i don't know if anybody has signed up for public comment or not um kara they have not do we have any anything else for the good of the order going once i think we've covered it um we've covered our meeting within an hour this time unless we've got anything else to discover but we've gone through the um through the agenda and i do appreciate the comments from my board colleagues about ways we can improve the work moving forward things that we can add to the work plan and and topics that we should bring up including the ed specs and the status of the the middle school discussion in outer southeast um again if you have any other questions please feel free to email um questions about the work plan um again it's really flexible happy to um really just laid it out for the benefit of everybody to see what we're um are thinking if that's all we have then i will close the meeting and wish everyone a great evening and we'll see


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