2020-07-13 PPS School Board Policy Committee Meeting

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District Portland Public Schools
Date 2020-07-13
Time 16:00:00
Venue Virtual/Online
Meeting Type committee
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Event 1: PPS Board of Education Policy Committee Meeting 7/13/2020

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and Julia will join us when she can so first of all I want to apologize to Jackson because I think I was supposed to send you an email confirming this time for the meeting and I I believe I did not do that so my apologies but I'm I'm glad you find your way here thank you um so the first item on the agenda is that changes in title nine regulations so I'm going to hand it off to marry me and Mary are gonna help with that man is here but she's unmute yes okay I'm having in a very slow connection here so I apologize there's a lot of feedback I'm not sure if that's me or someone else okay Shirley Ann why don't you start and well I guess I should introduce I don't know if you have evolved met LeAnn LeAnn O'Banion is a new title nine directors she came in a year ago isn't it just a year ago now and so and we're very grateful to have her it was a long search but but we're thrilled to have LeAnn and she's going to explain some of the there's been a lot of statutory changes and and and she's gonna discuss a little bit about that for you right now okay thank you Mary for that are you all hearing that feedback or is that just me you give up you ask me do hear it okay a little bit Roseanne you're not muted just to let you know and Mary is mute okay that is much better thank you whatever changed so thank you for having me here my understanding is and that you're interested in sort of a preview of the various changes that title nine various policies and that title nine sort of touches which are there are a lot of them I put together a document have you all seen that or do I need to share that again has up and shared with everyone yes okay what is the most helpful then should I it should we just run through that document can it really hop over to Quebec is it helpful to post it so those who might be streaming in can see it yeah I'd be happy to I don't use WebEx very much so Mary maybe as I'm talking could you do that oh yeah I love that possibly do that let me see if I can get it up for you okay I appreciate that it's a little dog otherwise I can present and do you mind if I just do a quick run-through of what has happened in LAN in terms of the statutory framework if you like so the on the federal level we have been waiting for at least the last three years for threatened regulations everybody knew they were coming but nobody knew what they were going to look like and when some initial proposals came out there was a lot of back up about them which caused further delay so we didn't receive the states didn't receive the regulations until was it the end of May animes that maybe things so and so everyone would not just PBS everyone has been scrambling both to
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read through to understand and then to begin work on the implementation piece and the implementation pieces is is made more complicated because we also have sometimes some state regulations and some of which are in kind of tension with the federal regs and so we have been working to look at where there's alignment and where there are differences and then how to develop a process that helps us align with both would that be right Leanne would have i synthesized a yes i'll take us back a little further though to the number one on this document which is to say that there is right in 2017 when the Department of Education pulled back the existing guidance on title not I mean ever since until May in February we were sort of surprised in fact Mary and I was sitting in a title nine three-day compliance training to get a notice from the US Department of Education specifically essentially giving warning to elementary and secondary school systems that although the focus in pain colleges and universities for many years that now they are putting their in to elementary and secondary so I just put on the or if you could scroll down a little bit for me the four areas that they're kind of focusing on and all of these are relevant to the policy changes we're going to be talking about I just sort of wanted you to be aware that they're gonna be looking at everything from compliance reviews to public awareness and support I would say also that's education broadly of students staff community they're gonna be doing data quality reviews which is something they've been doing in the university venue for quite some time but have never focused in k-12 and so a lot of the focus here is on data collection reporting and tracking so as as we move through just sort of be aware and I've also linked the do e letter here and then if we could scroll down again thank you with them so then comes May six where the Department of Education drops a 2004 three page new regulations and I want to explain how this is different from previous interpretations of title nine so during the Obama administration a lot of attention was paid to sexual assault sexual harassment as gender discrimination has sex discrimination which is essentially title nine as thirty seven words that has been interpreted over time since 1972 to cover everything from transgender rights and responsibilities and schools to sexual and dating violence stalking and other other things so in the three years we've been waiting for this NPRM to drop we sort of didn't weren't really sure what was gonna happen but we had some suspicions 2,000 pages are hard to sum up but I just put some bullet points here for you in terms of the the big changes now these are the federal regulations which often actually bump up against what our state says that we need to do so our challenge there's a diagram you could scroll down is to essentially align state and federal law with our board policies some of this work was began way before I got here through the the Whitehurst report and other great efforts and so our job now is to take some of these new state laws specifically Senate bill 155 and House bill 307 7 and align it with the brand new title 9 regulations which are considered rule of law so one of the differences between what the Trump administration and the did and the Obama administration did was Obama published guidance which was not legally binding
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it was strongly encouraged in most places adhere to what was in the guidance the the new regulations are just that they've gone through the notice of proposed rulemaking and therefore they are law they cannot be changed without an act of Congress essentially so the reason I included on the federal side here title 9 which is around sex discrimination and title 6 and 7 of the Civil Rights Act is because these are all parts of sort of basic civil rights title 6 and 7 have employment aspect title 7 has the employment piece of this and title 9 covers everything from student on student situations all the way through adult to student adult to adult sexual harassment so it's very very vast I'm gonna take a breath here and see if anybody wants me to qualify anything I've said so far I have a question hopefully I have several questions um so as I recall the discussions around the changes at the university level my sense was that kind of the upshot of these new ranks was to make it actually more difficult to investigate and adjudicate sexual abuse complaints that and that is what we're lands going to get to that one of the the key differences when I said there is some tension between the state and the federal the state has implemented its kind of state version of title nine that's the 3077 regs and if those regs contain kind of a broader definition of what sexual harassment is where and when it occurs how and how the process should be treated the new title nine regs are very narrow both in definition of what constitutes harassment and also in when a school district even if it does occur what when school districts would proceed under title nine and I think the thing that Anna and I have been talking about and what we're working toward and I think we have the process it's now we just need to get the policies aligned with it is to ensure that there's going to be a an investigation none of which is going to fall under this under the state framework and then a smaller section will be under the title nine federal framework I mean that's what it will look like okay so um so I like the Venn diagrams and I don't know if the Venn diagram is drawn to scale so it is not what purport I mean I get that there are two very different approaches that are embedded in the state side and the federal side so to what degree are the state state statutes and regulations which are relatively new I mean it's some of them at least to what degree the in alignment or out of alignment with the new federal regs mm-hmm so in the state of Oregon I mean I'm just I'm so thankful to live in the state of Oregon right now because in this in this world of title 9 because I think and I was not with the district when the work was happening specifically around 155 and 307 seven but my understanding of the history from talking to folks in the district who were involved in that was that these laws were because of the anticipated outcome of what was gonna happen on the federal side so the state of Oregon sort of said yep feds they're gonna do what they're gonna do but in our state we want to make sure we have state law that covers our ability to do the right thing and continue to protect children with what the feds regardless of what the feds decide to do which which is essentially they've narrowed the definition at the federal level but our
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state has extended the definition so it really comes down to what do we call it right so if we know if there's an allegation of some kind of sexual misconduct that needs to be investigated if it doesn't meet the narrow definition that the feds have provided us then likely it will meet the broader state destinations yeah and so in House bill 307 seven specifically is codifying title 9 law into state regulation so they use title 9 terminology throughout that statute so bottom line is what we can continue to do what we know is it's consistent with our organizational mission and values and you know we we might have to call it something different but I'm not concerned that we won't be able to continue to investigate everything know the processes are different when it if it bumps into a title night like if it fits within that more narrow framework then there are it was slightly different but they're not I would say they're not terribly different both under the state and federal guidance investigations are required notice is required to people you know support services you know those things they just look slightly different particularly in the the hearing process and on the on the federal level we are we we are it's a it's optional we could adopt the the kind of hearing that is done at the college level we are not going to it's it's very onerous it looks it's more criminal requiring cross examination student to sixth graders or to eighth graders is just we found it not it just it's not trauma-informed in any learning form or function right so there's a different process available the challenge will be in this is something we've started to talk about will be on when employment when an allegation is specifically between one of our staff members and a child so if a child alleges some kind of sexual abuse or misconduct or their parent does the person accused has some really specific rights under the new title nine federal statute and that includes the live discipline they're hearing as an option but not a requirement and we need to figure out how we're going to do that in practice so kind of stay tuned but that's also where Senate bill 155 sort of picks up - is that specific adult to child protection there are other questions I think it might help if we scroll down one and you see the policies that are impacted there are a lot of them some of these though I should say are not because of the new title nine federal published rules but there there are some policies that I think could use some updating just to be more aligned with the kinds of language and terminology that the district has been using for some time so there these are arranged and organized first by student and then staff policies and then Mary and I sort of rank ordered what we think is the most important but needs to be addressed first and so if you see that column that says approximate timeline for committee review we believe that the most critical policy is the teen dating violence and domestic violence policy revision and then second to that I think is scroll down but it's the Senate bill 155 revisions which is the adult to student I believe yes staff to student so that's kind of our second that we want to do and we've already revised the sexual harassment staff to student administrative directive so it already contains the language that was revised by SB 155 so it's already in that's in there as well as the the new proceedings we just need the policy itself to
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reflect the the the changes made by SP 155 and then the others were yeah we we are open to hearing what others if others would like us to move some of the other policies forward sooner we were open to that and we did recommend one rescission and that's to five 10030 as that that was the old grievance policy for our old sexual harassment policy which we've just changed to the workplace harassment the administrative directive to that workplace harassment policy is being finalized now and includes a a procedure and so this is not necessary does anybody else have a question because I have a few so but I want to give other people a chance no I just have some fairly ranty statements well I I'm thinking that we should reserve you know at least five minutes at the end of this section so that we can all indulge in a good healthy rant or two so but before then it did have a couple of questions so the sexual harassment staff to do policy yes why is that not covered under the Professional Conduct marry me want to answer that I have to think about that first it's a that so the professional conduct policy doesn't specifically address the the definition of sexual harassment as found in SB 155 that's that's the sex the sexual harassment really is the kind of outlining the statutory provisions for sexual conduct and I I think we need to change the name of that it's a misnomer it's what it really is is sexual abuse that's a student it's not sexual harassment as the statute is sexual conduct on that right which has and so what this policy is specifically talking about it is sexual conduct as as I mean SB 155 there's a specific definition and there's a you know and what happens when substantiated findings are made we can look at it in terms of the professional conduct policy I think that's a because I thought I mean correct me but wrong but I thought after I mean after this a while to do that professional conduct policy and and I think it happened I think we finalized that after SB 155 was passed if you did after it was passed before it was implemented correct so I think we incorporated that language I don't believe so but I think it deserves another look the SB 155 focuses a lot on what the rights of someone who has been accused an adult in the building in terms of their employment cross reporting and investigations with other entities I do not recall seeing that in there but I can pull it up and make sure I'm not missing something well I think we can do for the next meeting if you would like is do you put the Q policy side by side and talk about what we could speak more intelligently about the differences and what seems to be missing and whether incorporation is possible well well I would like desirable I mean I can imagine it might be preferable from an administrative point of view to have two separate policies that talk about different things but I'd yeah I'd like to find out if I mean generally speaking I think it's better to have one policy that's kind of omnibus says it can be without being totally diluted but it might make sense to have a separate policy for certain aspects you know there's something for you if you okay yeah but let's do that because there's um I
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believe and I've got the Professional Conduct policy here but I believe that there are gonna be a number of questions like that as we sort of imagine opening up all of these policies and comparing them against the other ones that are on the books and seeing you know maybe some of these we can eliminate entirely and integrate elsewhere I largely depends on can we get the specific definitions required but I'm with you I think one policy that's inclusive is but always better so I'm gonna I'm gonna suggest that this is the work of Leanne and Mary that they're leading and that they bring those that analysis forward as they bring the policies forward in the priority that they've outlined or as the board committee would direct them differently today so I think that analysis is part of that work as they revised proposed revisions to the policies that may be required by these changes or that make the policies more accessible understandable to those who need to use them so my question along those lines then is the process of being that this is my first time bringing you know policies in front of you for a change I would I would love some guidance about stakeholder engagement so entirely we have a process that would be happy to work through that with you on the front end we have wonderful materials that are coming and I've got yes so please work with Mary and Shanice and Mary knows this well so she will help guide you through that and then we'll share the outcomes of that with the committee one side engagement so since it came up I'm just going to give a little preview I think so our next meeting is August 3rd and staff are in the process of finalizing some some thoughts around Community Engagement protocols and in their hoping to have them reading for the committee to discuss at the next meeting on August 3rd yes I expect them to actually go out well in advance at the meeting so you have a chance to review them it's a Rachel and Shanice and Danny in particular although a lot of people have worked on them have developed kind of a user guide for proposing a change to a policy or an ad or developing a new one and then there's a particular component for community engagement so we're trying to every month to get a little more consistent in a repeatable process that helps when the policies arrive before this committee so that the board members have more work has happened on the front end as opposed in the middle of the committee process knowing that every policy has its own journey and story but yes those the effect I thought we would maybe even have them to you all today for next week's next month's meeting but it didn't quite happen but they were coming very very soon that sounds great I think our biggest concern is just that it's summer and with this being our sort of top priority I have I have a small group of students convened already but that's where I'm looking forward to working with Shanice and others to see if we can't move it and get some feedback before the the year starts back up again and if it's not possible that's okay too right a lot it's important that student engagement happen when students are present so we have that with a lot of policies during this step that sounds good so Rita you had other questions I did but I'm I'm taking up a lot of airtime does anybody else have questions cuz I get it I have a couple more but okay I'm just gonna I'll jump in with one okay just I'm looking at the grievance procedure so just a question about the process so well we look at that before we agree on the rescission or do we know that everything that we're getting rid of in there is not is in some other policy is there any anything that we will be losing but as I mentioned I'm I'm we are we are finishing up the workplace harassment ad now that we have the policy in place I've been working with HR on that to make sure that we
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have that process in place for the complaints and what I will do is cross-reference it to this policy to ensure that everything is in there and and then we can we can go from there I expect that we should have the workplace for us when ad completed by next week and it Marian Leanne of the subject matter experts on this more than I probably will ever be undoubtedly would be I think it's a general policy Julia to your question when you're being asked when the board is being asked to rescind a policy you should understand what's gone and where it's been replaced in other areas and we would make sure you have that information okay great okay my question is so these are relatively new barrel rigs and older state statutes but not terribly old are there deadlines that need to be met on either the state side or the federal site that we need to keep in mind as we schedule these different policies this thing has to be ready with the title nine changes by August 14 but that I think that the entire the entire country is in a scramble reality so I think also it's important to know that at this point 18 States Attorney General have excuse me have filed suit against the US Department of Education specific to these requirements that doesn't mean we we don't move forward but it is important to know that you know it may not end up where we currently are and you know Mary's right there there is a scramble everywhere so I think it's more important to get them right than to rush to the August 14th deadline because in practice the things that we're doing in practice are not outside of what the federal government would require us to do so and we have also been implementing the state changes and and in fact began that before there was even finalization right so I feel confident on our practice in this district and as I mentioned earlier I think we just need to get our policies to align to what we are doing and even just for a little more contents context the council for great city schools has signed on to one of the pieces of litigation right largely focused on the time for implementation because of time as when these districts are really scrambling so it's not just lip service to it but I do think the fact that our practices are largely in line and we've been doing at the state level gives us a lot of cover I mean I think well and work diligently but I think I'm also comfortable with the pace right which we're going and organ is one of the states that are part of that lawsuit go ahead and right oh I was just going to say that in the context of our last meeting when when I was asked to reach out to OTE about the other policy Emily Nazareth we responded saying that she's been hearing again in light of kovat a lot of districts are coming forward saying these are impossible asks at this point so she she said that she was going to have a discussion with Colt Gill to see about either extending or waiving the timelines that was for the ATS law but I'm I'm imagining the same is true for this I can loop back and find out from her specifically if it's limited but I just wanted you to know that because that was I think I think they are aware of how much is being asked of districts at this point and as targets it is for school districts colleges and universities with these new regs have it 10 times more to change so that's our it could it could always be worth so I can I just we'd sort of talked about this at the beginning but um I am still a little because confused um so the state the
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state approach is much more expansive correct and generally speaking under federal Riggs there's usually some wiggle room but but the wiggle room tends to be well at least in this state and other states it's it's a relatively narrow narrowly defined something and the states can broaden it wait but that's because but the the purpose of these federal regs is specifically to narrow what I mean like it's not it's not by accident but it's more narrow correct the feds want to want to really press mission it's okay well no I just like how much wiggle room do we have we will not there will be instances let's say a case comes forward it may not fit the narrow definition of a title 9 complaint it will therefore not be treated as a title 9 complaint it will however you treated as a sexual harassment complaint under state law so it's it's like it's not that we're not going to move forward on investigating and making sure that that that we have the health and safety of our students first and foremost it's that you may process it in a along a different path okay so we've got so we get options like we're not we're we're not gonna we're not gonna subscribe to the feds narrowing the definition of stuff and making it more difficult but it means that we're gonna be both we're gonna adhere to Boeing we're gonna adhere those and if there's a situation that we want to pursue and control regulations make it more difficult than we have state statutes and regulations that we can okay thank you you really need a very simple example the new pipeline federal regulations prohibit schools from investigating things that outside of buildings so it narrows what we call the RAF Nexxus - in buildings or during school sponsored activities programs - are from bus stops anything else under the federal regulations can no longer be investigated so online for example which is the majority of my time is spent investigating online harassment and and discrimination so the title nine Fed regulations say nope that's not part of your job if it happened on the weekend but we know that things that happen on the weekend impact a person's ability to feel safe right when they come back to the school building so under state under houseful 307 seven our rationale Nexus is anything we just determine it to be if it has an impact on the person then we we can't and should pursue that okay good thank you that's that's reassuring thank you any other discussion are are we okay with the prioritization of these I quit question I added the complaint what is it called it's the uniform complaint procedure in there and I had heard that somebody was working on that are you familiar is anyone familiar with that to the formal public complaints hmm yep yes that's the problem there's a that's a division 22 mechanism and compliance and been a very important tool beyond compliance I mean elevating concerns individualized and systemic and there is a complaint procedure required under title 9 and other laws and so there I think it's a worthy inquiry for staff to make and come with a recommendation about whether there's any impact to that particular complaint process or not we we do have multiple complaint processes that are mandated by various state and federal regulation it may be that we just need to change tweak some of the language in the uniform that policy to include a reference to title night and some of those other ones so if somebody's already working on it it may my my fix
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may be really simple it will take that off my Lea okay thanks okay um anything else on this okay um thank you this was this was very it's a ton of work I really want to thank Lee Ann and Mary for diving into mm and plus pages of regs and a lot of me with seminars and self-study and trying to synthesize that with state law it is as you can see a very complex and and very important issue so I really I think them both for their work on this Thank You Liz appreciate it thank you all okay thank you okay next up policy public comment periods search and seizure so as of 250 this afternoon which is my last update on this we have not received any additional public comment we did as you were calling our June 22nd meeting there was a request for incremental reach out to some community organizations to check in on the changes that had been made to make sure that any other can there are any other concerns that those had been surfaced and then Shanice was leading the charge on that and then Shanice do want to give us a brief update on the reach out and what you heard yeah I can share briefly you know as you know there's been several touch points along the way with an engaging stakeholders on this you can search and seizure policy and at a June meeting we have taken directive to just inform folks of where we are and the process as we began some engagement in in September so I'm gonna do a brief walkthrough so we we all can take the journey together for a short moment so upon the beginning of the school year the Portland Committee on community engaged policing community hailing initiative and a number of other organizations were consulted about giving some feedback on the policy and that initial feedback was very much in line with what we heard from students and that student engagement that took place in the fall with our student council and in a number of our classes of high schools and inquiry classes they we were able to really define core themes and priorities and so those were really centered around getting parent consent in terms of scenarios where an officer might identify a student as as an interest to interview and also reasonable suspicion kind of talking about how that might show up in the context of schools and reflecting on their their identities and experiences and in the culture at their building so we heard those priorities in the fall and Danny had the opportunity to work with our student board director Maxine on taking those priorities in identifying some suggested language changes so we took those language changes back to students earlier before our school closure in the spring and we're able to be affirmed and in the path that we were headed in so following that engagement we you know connected about just the full scope if you will of student priorities and wanted to make sure those partners that we reached in the beginning of the process in addition to others that had had built relationships with us along the way can weigh in and provide any feedback that they might not have already so stand for children word is bond brown girl rise and some other folks who they coordinated on on some calls in the last couple of weeks we're able to talk about this policy in its state that it's
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in now and kind of our firm once again where students are at and say the one thing I'd add is of course a deeper discussion on the role of officers in schools and how the the culture and climate of schools generally show up in the context of how someone might be searched so that that was a conversation and there I I think I think there is a memo that might in a very brief way share what I have just described to you all so hopefully that gives you a sense of the journey we've taken from September to now and know we have some students on the call as well who I know were able to specifically Nathaniel connect with Mary on some questions that were left especially after doing someone engaged in it through through the year and hopefully hopefully that helps and I can't address any questions and or clarify any touch points along the way okay any questions so I'm just looking at the memo shanise in those three sort of things that the parents affirm are things that had already and that path is the game that we very to track it and so that that's an ongoing conversation about how we how we keep keep that and how we keep track of who's being searched and why and I know that that's a place we've wrestled with as a policy committee and I think we've talked about that some of our staff are gonna create the tracking tool correct Rita yes I just wanted to interrupt you sorry because you cut out at the beginning so um we we heard you when you started talking about the tracking system I was the memo shinee's had mentioned in the three areas that the parents and Stanford children and other groups that sort of reiterated that Shanice also mentioned and that the tracking tool was was one that was really important and that it be disputed but just a name that we know the flaw in the tracker is that we're asking the very people who might be looked at strenuously to be the ones tracking and so it's just you know I think we need to continue as a board to think thoughtfully about that tool in that system so that it does what we're articulating that I do which is to track you know the equity of searches and how the policy is actually being lived out okay thanks any other comments on the policy in general yeah the title at the last meeting I mentioned that the title was like holistic formulation and I had me I would pull it up but I know I think we talked about retitling it searches of students and their property rights something I can pull up the exact one in front of me - but but a more less constitutional Fourth Amendment sounding firm the police or district police officer or district attorney might use and something that tells what's going on this is about searching students and their property I think we'd even moved it farther Liz last I'm where Julie I said something like student rights in search and seizure source something like that that it really did focus on the student I'm sort of agency in this policy thank you for remembering my brilliant fun at the time okay I don't feel strongly it should be doesn't somewhat it is so okay so let me um Liz let me ask a question if we change the title is that considered considered a substantive change requiring okay so we can make an executive decision in this committee but I think it has to be today correct and I I think you would align
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today and then I think you would make a recommendation to amend it at the board meeting right okay but I I'm motion to amend it what I'm what I'm saying is it's on the agenda for tomorrow's board meeting yeah be second read tomorrow okay okay unexpected happens okay so okay so we're going to we can no longer punt on this story Americans so let me ask Sinise we've heard two possibilities sort of gentle language given what you heard in the community engagement processes do you do you have any strong feelings when way the other about the language either one of those options my my gut reaction is you know we have a lot of discussion too about the administrative directive maybe clarifying some of the overall intent of what we're wanting to commit to with these changes so I think I would lean on on the proposed language that might articularly on what we're talking about the two priorities one being talking about our commitment to racial equity and that there will be a tracking system that it will exist that an accountability system will exist I'm not sure how you might need to say that in a policy but maybe hinting that that it is a spirit of it it will be existing I think we will suffice okay so I think the current language does that are you suggesting that it doesn't the language of the policy but not the title I think is what she's right right okay so okay so so can somebody repeat what the two options are for title the one that I floated to Julia over the weekend was searching students hold it up here of students and their property searches of students in their property thank you Mary and what we had discussed Policy Committee with something like rights of students during searches of students and their properties property but it's I don't know that the policy is just the rights of students I mean I think it has procedures and protocols for lots of different constituent parties so I don't know if that is the most accurate but I think the sense of we want to really mark that this policy is for students to use also to sort of ensure that they're being respected or that they're able to sort of have agency around their own rights I think I agree with theirs Lowry now that I'm catching up and I think also Nathaniel recently met with with Mary and I and we're discussing this notion of what is and isn't property or rights of students when it comes to technology or certain kinds of properties so I think the plain wing as plain as language is to describe what the policy is doing in to your point I think describing that the right and experiences of students through these changes and said I think are ultimately the important part okay do okay so the two the two titles on the table are searches of students in their property and the second is either students rights or rights of students during searches of person and property I am mister with the language a little bit I like the persons and property line
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that was good Rita and I I mean I want I mean I want this to be about student rights but I know that the policy goes beyond that so I think that maybe Liz's suggestion from over the weekend better captures captures the fullness of the property policy let me go but we might want to have the title be aspirational that's up to the committee so you think the mention of the students rights would be aspirational or not aspirational but I think the policy covers more than just student rights but that that could be an in not aspirational but an indicator to the community that that's part of our focus and part of our priority even though the policy entails more than student rights but I don't know if that then makes it confusing Liz I think we can we can make it work right so I think the only thing I would caution you against is you want to make sure that student students rights are in this policy are about searches and their property it's not a broader policy on student rights all right so it needs to be framed that way with that if that language is tired I think that's fine okay students rights regarding searches of person and property I'm good with that I see Nathanael nodding does that mean you're good all right are you good Liz I onion I'm I'm fine with that okay I'm a little uncomfortable I have to say making a change in the title for a policy that we've been we've been excruciating ly detailed about four months um I think we finally looked up just at a little higher elevation I think it was the right thing to point out at the last meeting I think it it's more and has the right focus and it has better language but I don't think it doesn't change the substance of what has already been first read I think it's more plain English explanation okay so alright so this is a little singable easy but so so in the interest of making it more excruciating do we want to say students rights or rights of students regarding of person and property students rights students rights okay going going gone I think okay can we make that change it's gone so we'll need tomorrow a motion to amend the policy and I think that's I can't imagine that there'll be any dispute about that Jim in the meeting okay cool okay so um so I think we're we're ready to bring this to the board for vote Mike it's gonna get an adopted before school starts Rita I know so thrilling here so so I want to I want to thank Shanice and Danny and everybody else who was involved in the community engagement I think it really did help I can get helped enormous Lee actually so um it's it's a better policy now than it was when we started so and it's I think immensely better than what is currently on the books so so I think this is going to be a good thing for students so okay thank you alright so let's move on to in a much more scintillating topic OSB a revisions process so Rosanna can I impose on you to put that short deck up overstatement it's three simple slides just so people can follow along visually this chart just give me second I get it sure I'll get the preamble here we've been engaged in quite some time on this engagement with O SBA to assess our current policy manual if you will with the model policies that they have and that involves us be a part of what we contracted for is to line up each of our policies to if it exists a corresponding
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OSP a model policy to see where the differences are where there may be opportunities for a different perspective legal compliance certainly when the legislature adopts changes and OSP a captures those and flows them through that model policy manual knowing which of those policies ties to our policy will help us do those legislative updates much more expeditiously so I think when we set out to do that do this OSP a work that was certainly at the forefront of our mind what we have found is that it is a slow process and that's not a criticism at all it's just the nature of the beast and part of it's because it's I mean it we waited for a long time and our so SBA is still working through all of the chapters they've done some but they haven't finished yet and when we take a policy that's been reviewed by OSB a and we have thanks for a say in we can go ahead and go to the second slide or the third slide sorry the second slide textual cite thank you um when we when we go through that what we find is that there may be really meaningful changes to be made they aren't necessarily urgent and in order to engage the functional policy owner the staff expert if you will in that area or the person who has responsibility it's not always the highest priority on their plate appropriately so I might add I think that's proper prioritization not saying that this should trump I don't know things like oh good response and budget and re-entry planning and all of those things so one of the reasons we wanted to just have a brief conversation with this committee is to talk about how the work is progressing and to talk about how we prioritize it and it is we certainly take opportunities if we have an urgent if the committee wants to consider something consider all the policies implicated by title 9 we're not going to wait for that section of the OSB a policy manual to emerge when that comes through we will also pick out the OSB a model policy and we will use that as a source of comparison content correction any of those things wouldn't when we it certainly will take advantage of leapfrogging anytime that that's helpful to make the workflow but right now we're just sort of walking through the process absent those that that get taken out of line we're just walking through chapter 8 and chapter sevens in the wings and it occurred to us that we should check in with committee to make sure that's how you want that work to proceed Rosanna could you go to the last slide this gives you a sense of the chapter 8 isn't present here but here are the other subject matters in the remaining seven chapters and we are happy to continue on as we are doing we are happy to make some different prioritizations we'd love some feedback on the order of the chapters at a minimum we can make those decisions all day long but we work for you you three so we want to make sure we're working in the order and in the manner you want us to I'm going to pause it questions about the work itself or any discussion on the prioritization it is until you're right Liz sorry if I miss that but this is the order in which they are currently prioritized or this is in no certain order its I just didn't put the numbers that's just chapter 1 chapter chunk check oh okay yeah if you don't make any choice your price our students we should I think we should prioritize students I agree with check on Sam so I guess the question I would have is is this like moving forward with this the driver of the committee meetings or will we still have mixed in these other priority policies I do not think this by virtue of a review process should be the top priority unless it is for some other reason I think when you have changes like title 9 or any of the
01h 05m 00s
others that are in the queue I think those should be the the most important work should rise to the top so this is just an justice question the most important thing I think we were trying to get out of out of this was the new numbering system so when statutes changed we have some of the auto auto pickup is there a process by which you could just like put everything through it and then it comes out our policies but their numbers on it each versus looking at the each each of the policies and like didn't keep ours or do we keep theirs or is it just like Cooney supercharged like hey you get 80% of the new numbers on our old policy needs and then we could work from there but then we would have accomplished the one of the primary objectives between hitting connected since that the numbers yeah so that will happen no matter what right as soon as OS ba is done with their their walk through that work has done it so that will happen as a matter of course and we will need it to happen by the next legislative session because this will not be through all these policies by that we will that that will inform even more work what it doesn't do if you stop there is it doesn't get you some of the you know outdated policies or some of the compliance changes that may be embedded in the oh s ba policies that did not over the years get picked up I mean we have policies going back as you saw earlier today to 1976 and so it'll get you partway there but you'll still I still recommend going through each and every policy at some point in this in the PPS policy manual regardless of OS ba because it needs more clean up it's got too many outdated policies in it it doesn't it's written with inconsistent focus and tone in many instances and sometimes they're just bad policies honestly and they're just misstated we've rescinded some of the big ones but there's more work to do with the goal of having a policy manual that you can find the most important answers that you need to find easily right and that no Liz this is Amy you know episodically we stumble upon a policy and we say this doesn't serve us well we need to fix this do you have a running list in your estimation of those that are most problematic we have a running list of policies that we think are coming to this committee and they include policies this committee has said we want to address they've included they include policies that are affected by legislative changes or that staff have come forward and said this doesn't work well we need to fix this or they are new policies that we think need to so their current list contains finishing out the Code of Ethics right we think those policies are missing here so they come from a variety of sources and then that some of them we stumble across to some of them require go ahead but we haven't fed those interests into this OSB a process yet not yet I mean we're having this conversation early we're partway through chapter 8 it's the first one it took us a long time to get here we're kind of figuring out what the rhythm is and what the pace is and it's it's slow because it isn't prioritized by urgency right it's slow because we are we kind of worked through numerically and so it's going to get prioritized at multiple staff levels and then in the committee level and I want to be really clear I am NOT I'm not trying to say in nice words I think there's anything wrong with that I think that's a perfectly reasonable approach but as we kind of work through it at a pretty slow pace that isn't prioritized by any criteria other than perhaps selecting the chapter I want to touch base and make sure the committee is in line with that I start I have two thoughts the first is since I'm old enough to remember 1976 I think I can say quite definitively that not much has changed
01h 10m 00s
at all Jimmy I wasn't born in 1976 so tons has changed because I arrived we can talk about that offline and I think police anyway okay moving on so I guess the other thing is I think we're still so you guys staff has done some work on capital H but the committee has not actually you you've got a taste of it and Claire's coming back I think the plan is on the next agenda to bring back that budget question about what what's the governance at the board level around reductions in blades remember that conversation so that really I can do some work but really wrestled with that was um it's not like a system just out of my range okay in this last meeting limit what was that Julia your mic is live okay there we go okay yeah I'm just trying to say the committee has not wrestled with the process of working through a chapter so so it's a little we're still it's going to be a process of discovery for us still even for different and for staff to I mean I we are at the we are at the very beginning and I also would urge us over the life of this project which is probably at least 18 months to stay nimble and agile as well we're just doing an early process check-in so um so I guess my third thing I would say is that given that one thing that we might want to think about is I guess the dilemma between prioritizing based on importance according to some criteria or prioritizing in terms of process like getting through as much stuff as quickly as possible and it's relevant because students is correct me if I'm wrong but I think students is the biggest component the students and the the staff section is 4 & 5 yes students and personnel are the the medius sections and there'll be more engagement I mean one thing to think about the chapter 8 thesis the far our don't require robust community or student engagement yeah I don't we haven't been through all of them yet so I don't we need to take each one of those on an individual basis and answer that question but we definitely know they'll be more on the students and the people side and and community engagement this is going to be very dependent on what kind of learning environment we're in so yeah anyway okay I I did so I'm just ruminating sorry okay I mean and I'm not trying I mean again some I think we just want to make sure you know how we're doing the work and that it's we don't wake up six months from now and the committee goes why were you doing it that way I also think we can when we finished chapter eight and I would recommend we do finish chapter eight we've started it we've already distributed to staff they're working on it we can check in then you know the chapter seven community chapters the next one that's Louis ba has done but they'll have other ones done I suspect before we get they've had a little pause with Peggy full stet retiring and it transferring to someone else down there but Rachel was just in communication with them today in fact so we will we'll be working on this for a long time and can certainly make other choices as we go I'm not you know I think as we identify policies it's important to continue to work on the the issues that we understand need changing and that we find those urgent regardless of the OSB process I'm very comfortable as we pick those out and and then when we get to a more routinized process you
01h 15m 00s
know we've already we've already done that one yeah so one of the things about the OSB a put the policies that their substitute policies I think are like really generic and to me it's sort of like it seems kind of like a waste of staff time to like go through their reviewing it and I come and bring into the committee with like this is like milquetoast or like doesn't really say anything I mean that's what I find most of them are so high level and generic it's just why would we use their policy so I guess I'm wondering if there was like a more efficient way to do like you know bundle them around to like the committee members like you know take you know half an hour go through these like with a like yes you're okay with getting rid of these these require more more discussion so that we can rapidly get get through these versus having them go through so that the clunky process of alright it sounds like maybe a longer process of having them like come to the committee and then we discuss each one whereas we could have just gone through it and like yes yes yes no yes no these are the you know 80% we're in agreement the other 20% that's where we spend our committee time just I think there's some you want to spend more time on than others I mean just as a refresher and this started before you were on the board the OSB a philosophy around policy development I don't know if it'll change with Peggy's retirement but it has been if it's not in a positive source of law a statute or regulation or case law it does not belong in a policy and I mean adamant and if you look at our professional conduct policy for instance you're not gonna find a lot of that the specific statements in ruel statute I mean so there are a pop at me actually I think now you are because we we drove lawmaking to some degree in Salem based on some of our policy work absolutely but but we but literally OS be able to go line by line if that line isn't in there about how do is the door open or closed and and wonder what circumstances is it - yeah I mean like that level of detail if that would not survive an OSP a policy review and I'm not suggesting that the board should adopt that approach to policymaking but it has somehow you know it's helpful on a compliance I mean I think the OSP a process is mostly a compliance and updating process and I think our hope at the outset was that it would help accelerate some of the decisions on rescissions and revisions right that would tell us how out-of-date some things are give us a point of which to go faster we paused other recisions to incorporate them into the OSP a process for example but if you spend three to nine months on every one of those it'll be five years it won't be 18 months but I don't think you will actually I don't I I don't think you'll need to you'll spend your time better than that challenge accepted so why are they looking at ADEs also it's because it aligns with what they have where's Mary I can't remember what they call it they have a funny name for what they call but we can't master ours they come in a strict regulation regularly they have a policy and an administrative regulation so part of what we bought was that because we're we would change our regulations or we were at least reference our directives to align with their regulations well but isn't that the title it's about the substance of what you have and and we brought some of those we brought you tried to have a full example set when we came to you last time with those chapter 8 examples this is one we would delete this is one we would adopt this is one we would modify in part but not accept all their changers here's an example of what it looks like at the ad level we were I mean in addition to your substantive review we wanted to give you insight into what it was looking like okay so I guess my perpetual question um when do we need to decide on this you
01h 20m 00s
don't need to decide right now I mean I think once we get we need to tell OSB a with what order to continue on in there of you and I do think students and personnel would be pretty high on my list they will go faster than we will be able to so what they what we have waiting in each Bay from them we can then choose from okay that makes sense yeah and and I think it um I mean any sort of beat to the punch with her question about um do you have kind of a wish list of things that have popped up you know are there chapters that seem to be more in need of review because like you keep hearing about things that are getting in the way of long silence I think we have done that on with individual policies already when we have some policy that's getting in the way it's not a chapter it's a policy as they break yet they're so varied and content that we bring those forward and I think we will always continue to do so we won't pause on that no finish your thought I'm sorry when we get to the personnel side and someone on the student side depending on the content you also get into bargaining issues sometimes so that also is a gating factor for some of that work that doesn't mean yeah that means that may extend the time discussion those I mean I think we should just projected that personnel me may take a longer to think because of the impact the possibility of impact on pardon me and when we get to personnel I would definitely push through those that don't require bargaining first I mean I would as the others are working their way through those but it's you know we've all experienced with policies the ones you think are gonna be short and sweet can take a long time and others can go through I mean each one kind of has its own journey its own stakeholders its own history that maybe not everyone understood our new about recent changes from the legislature I think as we put the res Jalen's on this work as well I think that will I think particularly when we when we look at policies where more work is needed there that that lens needs to be stronger in our policies I think we should move those further up I think that's probably a very if that's a hard statement to operationalize without being in the work itself but I think we are mindful of that so we're happy to take continue on in Chapter eight we've got chapter seven waiting in the wings the community chapter take the personnel and students and instruction are probably the next three to go through and check in again just like I said we didn't want to go six more months without having some additional visibility and just thinking about it but there isn't a decision that has to be made today nothing's on fire here maybe that's the point so what one thing that I request is that if we're going to get a bundle to get them in advance so that with what staffs recommending that we again can use our committee time officials efficiently like if there's no if there's no objection just like Cruz right through do you recall two meetings ago when we had that the top kind of what the recommendation was did that format work where we we had a collection for the committee and we tried to code at the top what we were recommending or not it was read lined it with in so you could see yes and I'm trying over whether we got those when we got those I think they were not at the last minute but I that maybe that's wishful remembering on my part but I think they were so my memory is that we got we got them in advance wasn't I don't think weren't that many yeah and five or six what what was not included though was an explanation of why there was no what was what was the thinking behind the recommendations for language changes and like when that's
01h 25m 00s
what Claire's going back up right yeah yeah the changes from OS ba where they they just remember what Liz had said earlier their focus is on keeping a statutory so anything that we had that went beyond that they were likely recommending that we remove so that the changes from our staff will be was how we operationalize is from the recommendations from OSB are like OS var likely more adhering more closely to the statutory language so it might be it might be helpful to actually distinguish what's the OSB a recommendation versus what's the pickiest staff recommendations because they might be different actually well they might be sustained but with different thinking or you know something yeah I think we we gave you the what on that the last time but we didn't give you the why so are those when they come to the committee it's a recommendation are we gonna just act at that committee meeting unless they're questions or there's more unless there's more work to be done like happened at the last one where there was I think a very very good conversation about governance and changing budgets and what needs to be proved and what doesn't and I think that's the right kind of conversation to be having otherwise yes if it's straightforward if it's a clean up at it if it's a really obvious rescission and we've given you the context for why it's not needed or why it's been replaced elsewhere I think you can act in the committee okay um I think we've beaten this horse good and did put everyone to sleep though I guess at this point just kind of I'm not hearing anything suggesting that you shouldn't just keep going the way you're going okay and we can always stop if if we need to change direction but I think for now let's sort of crank through the chapter 8 stuff and see how it goes and then you know and then we'll move on to the next one that works for us thank you all for that okay yeah that's helpful thanks thank you okay so we have a half an hour left do we have any public comment let's see we do not okay alright so I I wanted to take just a little bit of time to talk about to sort of review how this last year of policy committee work wins with an eye towards improving so I I was looking back at what we accomplished and if my computer will ever work so we had we worked on about 11 different policies or Suites of policies and some of them were some of them we quaint crank through pretty quickly there was one that we two of them we processed in two months one and three one in four and then the others there was a kind of a definite like two definite groups and one group when we finished pretty quickly and then another group it ended up being generally a pretty long discussion series of discussions over a long period of time the ones that we worked through quickly
01h 30m 00s
were diploma requirements nutrition services suicide prevention no sorry healthy substance free learning environments and and then professional conduct the professional conduct policy um which we finalized in this in October of 2019 and that actually was a that was an outlier because the that had that was a continuation of work that had started the previous year so when you look at the whole it took almost a year for for us to get through the whole thing for professional conduct so the ones that we finished fairly quickly tended to be the policies that were responses to legislative change that required some relatively minor kind of language changes that were essentially codified in the statutes that we needed to incorporate so that's a whole body of work I think that we can I think it will inform what we do with the OSB a work because a lot of that work is presumably going to be updating policy language in order to be in compliance with legislation that's happened since the last time we looked but then there's a whole a whole range of other policies that have tended to take a fairly long time to get through and I had a couple thoughts about some of the factors that are contributing to how much time it takes us to work through a policy and and some thoughts on like how we can what we can do better to maybe shorten the length of time but before I continue talking I want to open it up to board members and students if you have if you have thoughts on how things work during this last year and how we can do better anybody Oh Jackson you want to go first and then I'll go yeah sure I think that student engagement has come a long way this year especially relating to the search and seizure policy and I'm glad to see that the district's coming out with guidelines on community engagement for kind of on the front end of policy instead of in the middle or at the end and looking to the future the DSC was looking at talking with you about appointing a more permanent member to the policy committee for next year I felt like we got really caught up in the meal policy but that like I felt like we had several meetings that were the same exact meeting and so and I blame Rita because at the beginning she's like we should get through this quickly and then we spent like months on it so I think she jinxed us and well I know that was super important and part of the findings in the Secretary of State's audit it wasn't a student-focused and so I think that for me was a little bit of a disappointment that it ended up taking so much of our time and so to continue to like balance doing a thorough job on those kinds of policies and also making sure that the student facing policies are the priority like chair cons and then she when she said we should focus on the OSD policies that affect students so that that would be my one sentiment about being on the policy committee but I do appreciate a an and the community engagement piece in the student voice and then I still have questions from our last meeting when we have this sort of like tension around the search and seizure policy or whatever we're calling now right the rights of students when it comes to having their persons or property searched that I thought we'd already done the community engagement piece and then to hear that that wasn't what our community engagement staff and
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our students felt so I'm unclear on how the protocols happen for when there's a policy that needs community engagement how do we trigger that and then we've had conversations about do we do community engagement first to inform the creation of the prop policy or do we do it after or do we do it both times and like what is the sequence of that and I still don't feel like I have a lot of clarity on how that community engagement sort of timeline works and I know it's not the board members role to like direct staff to do anything that so to make sure we have clear understanding of when things are gonna happen so that you know she nice isn't assuming one thing and we're assuming another and then we get to a meeting and we're all like I want to avoid the screaming and communication yeah I think and the staff have been talking about that a lot because we've seen how it's not been as streamlined and there will always be times to loop back and go check in with a particular constituent stakeholder community group but our goal which is to have so much of that work as possible done before it gets to the committee for the committee to do its work so the committee's work is informed on the front end by it not waiting for it to go happen and so that's that's our objective like I'm sure that there will be there's a permeable barriers in there but that's the that's the design I never want us to get to a place where like systems we have in place prevent us from doing good work and that we can't loop back or be flexible but I just felt really confused after the last meeting and and concerned that like I had not communicated something clearly ER that there'd been a miscommunication around the search and seizure policy and it just it didn't feel good because we do want to take it slow and include our community we also need to get the policy completed so I just I just walked away from that meeting feeling like they've been a disconnect and that like we can we can negotiate that and work it out so we don't have to do that again I think that's right and I you know Shanice and her team are so experienced and so good and so in demand by everyone and part of what we realized at various points but we've just we've been talking about just in the last two weeks we meet we meet once a week to talk about all things Policy Committee related is the that those were who are the contents or function owners of a policy area they really need some guidance and and you've seen it in juice meetings in a row people come forward and say I want to know what the committee wants me to do on this and we are really trying to shift that so that that Shanice is a consultant but that the owner of the policy identifies and work is in the work enough and they are to have confidence in knowing who that who they need to go talk to again in consultation with with Denise and her team and Danny to make sure that we're all learning and growing in that area but it isn't it's not for the committee to say you may have thoughts you may say how do you talk to X or Y Y Z group or person but but most of that should be the thoughtfulness and the work of the owner of the policy bringing it forward and we have to build that muscle that's not a criticism of anyone but I think we're not there yet as an organization and we're feeling it so we're trying to front-load that with some additional tools so I I mentioned earlier on in the meeting that staff are gonna be bringing forward a proposal for some protocols around community engagement at the next meeting on August 3rd and I think that will be an opportunity for the committee to really wrestle with some of the questions about what's the threshold for for what kind of community engagements and you know when and and how and and have a you know we've never we as a committee of never had a big conversation about what it is we as board members want and need from a community engagement process like what are we asking of community engagement so I'm hoping that we'll have that discussion at the next committee meeting have a couple thoughts it would be helpful at the beginning of the year to have sketched out what the general topics are by meeting with always a little bit of extra room space available so that some topics can be added but so we have sort of a syllabus of what what
01h 40m 00s
it is that we're going to be working on they could use this like mix of the just 700s da policy revisions and then some big topics that you've identified that we want to get done because I think then you mean otherwise you do have them so there's like great things that go on and on and on person's like hey this is this is like a two meeting policy and this is a more meeting one and that we just have a better sense that way people prepared like hey you're gonna raise an issue you want to offer something then you know here's here's the meetings you're gonna do it you're gonna give you that with some flexibility but just a little bit more structured so that it's all visible if you know just be good also I guess also just like the disappearance of the student discipline policy no I would expect that's we're bargaining it right so Rick I mean I guess one of the things is just having a running keeping I liked how I'm a bean agenda we had this like running list of issues had been raised or things that are still in flight so you don't lose it thank you where is it and then are our policies actually allow any member of the community or board member to introduce a policy and if this is like one of us it's like you know legislators if also making is one of our jobs you don't really allow or accommodate for that so I think having some flexibility Oh like what what policies have community members brought to us or just bored numbers on to raise and then the committee discussion about you know where does it go and prioritization I mean I frustrated somewhat that learned in the third year my four-year term and we've been talking for three years about doing something about the foundation fundraising paying for stats and yet you haven't haven't done anything about it and I know that's gonna be one of those things that's gonna take it's probably like a five or six and a bunch of community engagement potentially but if we don't ever get started those things stop and so somehow well we have an agenda also allowing others to raise your shoes that were like oh yeah that's a little great interest and yesterday raised or parents or individual board members but seems like an get we don't have that it's not flippant about it but in general I find the committee I really like it I think we have good discussions that are generally respectful they're thought-provoking I think land usually in the right place so they're just toasted the staff at the mid members and the students would have joined us to make better policy so I um I agree with with everything that everybody said so far I I do think the discussion that we have on the community engagement is going to be is going to be helpful in setting the committee and staff up for having a more and a knowable process for working through these policies and and I hope it will mean that you know we we we prioritize elevating student voice and and that we have a way to do that and I think we have gotten better this year in community engagement I think we've gotten a lot better especially around student voice but it there were several instances where it came later in the process than it should have so I think the discussion at the next meeting I
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think is gonna be really helpful for for everybody and and kind of clarifying how we want to proceed I guess the other thing that I would say about this year this past year um was that I think when we when we tackle policies I mean I think it would be helpful for us to have more clarity on why we're tackling a policy what is it about the policy that has kind of catapulted it into the the mix for this committee establishing some deadlines I mean I really like the idea of sort of projecting how long we think it should take to tackle a policy I mean if we're talking about a fairly fairly routine change for legislative compliance I think we've we've got a track record on that and we can predict but for the more complicated policies I think it would even be helpful for us to kind of think through the level of complexity of different policies so that we can so then we can sort of or at least try to predict all of the factors that we're going to have to work through so I think that might help and and yes I agreed that it would be helpful to have at least a preliminary list of priorities for the coming year and and I think I think it's also something that we might want to try to tackle at the next policy meeting come up with kind of a short list of some policies that we're pretty sure we're gonna we're gonna want to take a look at over the next I guess at that point will be 11 months mmm and I think we do have we do have a list of things that have been hanging out there that we've wanted to take a look at Foundation policy is one of them Liz mentioned earlier code of ethics that we we little piece of it's in the 2017-18 year I think it was 1718 was but at the time we said that's you know that's just a piece of a much bigger kind of body of work around ethics that we need to tackle I think we're going to be getting prior to the next next committee meeting we're going to be getting I think the annual report on the complaint policy and that will be that pretty much the two-year mark since the that policy was passed that includes very substantial revisions to the to the process and that might be a good time to take a look at how it's working and whether we want to make any revisions to the policy so anyway I think there are a few things that we excuse me they complained policy yeah so I think there are a couple few things that we can already identify that we're gonna that we probably want to take a look at and and now we've got a few more with the title nine work and I so I think it would be helpful at the next meeting to have have discussion about priorities with the understanding that we're also going to have to leave in flexibility to deal with stuff as it emerges though anyway so I know the students the DSC also has some change proposed changes coming to that policy as well I'm not using right title or the policy but I think y'all know which one I'm talking about so I know that there's gonna be some more engagement in the fall but that's coming also and also that's probably going to be a host of policies relating to student
01h 50m 00s
leadership okay good to know so if right before so so I think if everybody could I mean I work with Liz to come up with the list of things that we already know have been identified but if board members and students can you know give some thought to if there's anything else that you want to propose to be on on a policy agenda for the next year then bring it at the next meeting and we'll well talk about it so that's all I had any other comments questions thoughts would it be possible to yeah so that yeah yeah okay we have five minutes left we could keep talking on we could kind of good you just want to dare us to not be able to end early ever thank you very exciting episode okay all right everybody thank you


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