2014-08-04 PPS School Board Business Meeting
District | Portland Public Schools |
---|---|
Date | 2014-08-04 |
Time | missing |
Venue | missing |
Meeting Type | business |
Directors Present | missing |
Documents / Media
Notices/Agendas
Materials
08-04-14 Final Packet (9d6b427a3cd8cf6f).pdf Meeting Materials
Minutes
Transcripts
Event 1: Board of Education - Business Meeting - August 04, 2014
00h 00m 00s
where are you guys okay
we get a layer to check
good afternoon this meeting of the board
of education for August 4 2014 is called
to order I'd like to extend a warm
welcome to everyone present any item
that will be voted on this evening has
been posted as required by state law
this meeting is being streamed live on
our PPS TV services website
and replays of today's meeting will not
be available on Channel 28 until August
12th when it will be posted on TV
services website School Board video
archive
co-chair Adkins is joining us on the
phone and student representative Josh
well is absent today
this board meeting was rescheduled in
order to accommodate the vacation
schedules of several board members and
to ensure that we were able to have all
voices at this meeting
even if director Atkins is only able to
join us by telephone
we completed and approved the
superintendent's evaluation in May our
agenda day is the superintendent's
contract which we approve on an annual
basis
so at this time we'll have public
comment Miss hewson do we I know we have
people signed up we have three our first
two speakers Donna Cohen and Dave Porter
okay while you're both coming up I'll go
ahead and read the instructions for
public comment
thank you very much for taking the time
to come to our board meeting we deeply
value public input and we look forward
to hearing your thoughts and Reflections
and concerns our responsibility as a
board lies in actively listening and
reflecting on the thoughts and opinions
of others guidelines for public input
emphasize respect and consideration when
referring to board members staff and
other presenters
the board will not respond to any
comments or questions at this time but
the board or staff will follow up on
various issues that are raised please
make sure that you've left your contact
information either a phone or an email
on the sign up sheet with Miss Houston
okay pursuant to board policy
1.78.012 speakers may offer objective
criticism of District Operations and
programs but the board will not hear
complaints concerning individual
District personnel any complaints about
specific employees should be directed to
the superintendent's office
you have a total of three minutes to
share your comments please Begin by
stating your name spelling your last
name during the first two minutes some
testimony you'll see a green light there
in front of you
when you have one minute remaining the
yellow light will come on and when your
time is up the red light will go on in a
buzzer sounds and we ask that you wrap
up your comments at that time again we
sincerely appreciate you being here
today and giving us your input and thank
you very much for your cooperation
so either you can go ahead good
afternoon my name is Dave Porter
p-o-r-t-e-r
chair Noel superintendent Smith members
of the board members of the public
this afternoon I wish to speak about the
need for a second Japanese dual language
immersion program in PPS the board
should instruct PPS Administration to
develop a proposal for board
consideration
as to when to open and where to locate
such a new Japanese immersion program
first there is now sufficient parental
interest in Lottery demand for an
additional Japanese immersion program
here's the data from the last four years
of the PPS transfer Lottery
Uh current last year is not yet
available
note the bottom line over the four-year
school years 2010 to 2014
246 applicants met the criteria for
admission
probably including attending an
orientation meeting but we're either
wait listed or denied no space ppa's PPS
failed each of those 246 applicants
their parents wanted them to learn
Japanese and PBS let them down they lost
their best perhaps only opportunity to
become bilingual in Japanese
PPS cares a lot about community and
parental engagement that may suggest
that parents are rarely more engaged
than when they make a kindergarten or
Pre-K selection for their child they are
often required to make school visits and
school meetings and to fill out
applications
their preferences as reflected in the
lottery should be given substantial
weight in the development of PPS
programs
Richmond admits most of its students at
both Pre-K and kindergarten level in
2013-14 the Richmond Japanese immersion
program had 113 students in its
kindergarten I assume 51 of the 52
students admitted to the
pre-kindergarten program in
2012-13 the prior year carried over into
kidney kindergarten and were joined by
62 selected in the 2013-14 Lottery to
yield the 113 kindergartens I do not
00h 05m 00s
know how many of these were siblings
note that 112 kindergarten students can
be distributed into four classes of 28
each the last three years had enough
students each turned away each year 56
or more to fill two additional Japanese
immersion classrooms those are the
points I wanted to make put some more
data in the written material on the
aspects of the Richmond program thank
you thank you very much
Donna Cohen c-o-h-e-n
um I'm going to refer to a couple of pts
documents I'll give you the references
afterwards
I'm going to read something first
minimum standards for dedicated spaces
requirement number one each neighborhood
High School will have sufficient
dedicated space to accommodate the
following core electives 3D CAD Design
Lab wood and metal manufacturing
Robotics and stem these spaces will be
located in close proximity
to enhance the interdisciplinary and
iterative nature of Hands-On
project-based learning and this is of
course what we've been asking for you're
telling us now that our two stem spaces
one that's almost 2500 feet one that's
almost 3 500 feet are now going to be
equipped with everything that was in
both of the spaces
which is
clearly impossible
had even one of the spaces had the
larger space been able to fit all of
that equipment
we would never have had a problem and I
wouldn't be here now so that solution is
not a solution
from the PPS Ed specs Pages 36 and 37
the requirements square footage for CTE
space requirements and stem space
requirements
clearly when you look at them the square
footage that has been allotted to
Roosevelt combined on between fifty five
hundred and six thousand isn't it
inadequate according to your own Ed
specs in other words everything we've
been asking for is already in your own
guidelines we're asking you to fulfill
your guidelines
and I've added here information about a
300 page dissertation done by a graduate
student in technology education which is
totally focused on tech ed facilities in
terms of size in terms of equipment it's
very helpful it's it was partly done to
help architects
you guys need to resolve this according
to what the community has said and your
own guidelines
more and more people in the community
are upset about this
we are not going away until this is
fixed
thank you
lastly we have Dominic Lafave
hi there my name is Dominic Lafave
l-e-f-a-v-e and I'm a special education
teacher at Wilson High School
and
um I um I'm just between
summer conferences and doing a bunch of
professional development and I'm kind of
a little bit annoyed that I have to I
feel like I have to come here today
I'm going to talk about special ed but
really what motivates me to come here is
the prospect of giving a huge raise to
the superintendent we need to put that
money into our schools directly into our
classrooms I work in special education
and I've seen our uh I'm just going to
give you a couple of examples in case
you're out of ideas
um
our motor team's been gutted we we this
is our motor team works with special
education students that's ape teachers
physical therapists occupational
therapists they do a fantastic job
they've been stretched beyond their
limits they cannot handle the amount of
kids that they are supposedly working
with which means they're not doing their
jobs and frankly I just think it's
horribly irresponsible for you to you
know around us this enormous
um
you know raise for the superintendent
when our schools are in this shape we
need more para Educators we need more
special education teachers I've watched
the case loads of of learnings Center
teachers to Skyrocket they become IEP
Mills they're not working with the kids
the way they're supposed to the way
they're mandated by federal law to do
um you need to fix this and you need to
act responsibly and I have just gotten
to the point where it feels like I don't
00h 10m 00s
trust you to be responsible with this
stuff so I've come down here I really
don't want to be here but we need to put
these resources into our classrooms
please be responsible and consider this
thank you
thank you for coming
okay at this time we're going to go
ahead and talk about the or review the
superintendent contact contract accept
extension
um on May 19th the board adopted the
superintendent's performance appraisal
and since that time we've been in
negotiation with the superintendent
regarding salary and benefits
we've not had such a discussion since
the superintendent joined the district
seven years ago
because while we were in a recession and
experiencing severe cuts to our budget
the superintendent refused to accept any
raise
in fact because of furlough days her
salary decreased in years the staff took
furloughs
today the board will vote on
superintendent's contract extension not
all board members are in agreement with
the package that we have negotiated and
all board members will have an
opportunity to speak about why they do
or do not agree
before we get to that I want to share
with the public what we considered
during the contract negotiations
so we have a PowerPoint for that
nope
hi okay as you all know superintendent
Smith has led the Portland Public
Schools for the past seven years and
during that time there have been
significant achievements that indicate
the district is moving in a positive
direction we're not all the way there we
know that as a board but we are making
positive moves
so I'm going to go through a few of
those today we have a 14 percentage
Point gain in high school graduation
rate from 53 percent to 67 percent
the graduation rate in our comprehensive
and focus option high schools is 80
percent
and the achievement gap between white
students and students of color is
narrowing at Key milestones
the graduation gap between white
students and Latino students is narrowed
by nine percentage points as an example
we've been growing the internal
leadership capacity within the
district's administrative offices
we've developed a racial educational
Equity policy that has been developed
and implemented differentiating
resources for students with fewer
supports and I might add as a nationally
recognized Equity policy that is copied
by districts across the country
the superintendent-led contract
negotiations with the pat that among
other things resulted in more school
days for students and Provisions that
allowed the district to hire sooner
and ensure that we have the best teacher
in front of our students I know that our
human resources people are
across the country looking for new
teachers for us
early
we passed a 482 million dollar bond with
successful completion of the first round
of construction and Improvement product
projects last summer and we have 12 more
projects this summer and we're moving
ahead with both Roosevelt and Franklin
in their redesign
May the passage of a local option Levy
that provided more funding for our
schools during a recession that
eliminated 40 million dollars in The
District budget affecting our efforts to
educate children
we've had operational cost Savings of
over three million dollars that are
redirected into Educational Services for
example are boiler burners
and despite significant budget
reductions in years of cuts the district
educational Milestones have continued to
be met
among large and medium-sized school
districts PPS has the second smallest
Elementary class size in the distance in
the metro area
we strengthen Partnerships throughout
the district State and county for
example the superintendent participates
in cradled her career
a Consortium of City County Business
Community nonprofits and higher ed
Partnerships with Multnomah districts
focused on educational milestones
and we have one of the longest school
years of any of the large districts
so our rationale for salary increase and
a benefit adjustment was based on these
achievements in other words performance
and market indicators
so the market indicators that we
reviewed
showed us that the average
superintendent tenure amongst Council of
great City school districts is three
years
and superintendent Smith has been with
us for seven
National comparisons of urban school
districts with similar student
00h 15m 00s
populations show the superintendent has
the longest tenure in the seven years
more than double this the cgcs average
many of the district's accomplishments
are the result of her steady long term
leadership
the council great City Schools average
superintendent's salary is 243 thousand
dollars with over 50 percent of the
superintendents earning 250 000 and
above
again the council's average salary for a
tenure of five years or more is two
hundred and forty seven thousand dollars
the Council of great City Schools survey
notes that the average benefit package
for urban superintendent is
approximately fifty eight thousand
dollars superintendent Smith's proposed
benefit package is 50
566 which includes a twenty five hundred
dollar monthly annuity
it's important for us that
superintendent's missed contract be
transparent with no hidden benefits that
increase the compensation what you see
in the contract is what you get
this is not necessarily true with other
superintendent contracts Across the
Nation or even in our region
for example other contracts include
payment of the employee's purse
contribution which we don't do in
Portland Public Schools
access to a car or travel car expenses
additional vacation that can then be
bought out
and moving expenses there are other
benefits included in other contracts as
well
this contract has none of these for
example the superintendent pays her six
percent purrs contribution which under
this contract would be about 14 820
making her adjusted salary compared to
the districts that do pay purse 232 180.
so this is a national comparison of
where our superintendent is in
comparison to other districts across the
country you can see that it's just about
or just about in the middle
I think it's below the median
the district's on there if you can't
read them uh in the audience or
Anchorage Minneapolis PPS where the
superintendent is currently Indianapolis
St Paul Wichita Kansas Columbus Ohio
the proposed number
Boston Omaha Nebraska Norfolk Virginia
Seattle Washington Oakland California
Campus Capistrano California Santa Ana
and Atlanta Georgia
we also used Seattle as one of our
comparisons
at the superintendent there was making
269 999 dollars and when I
went to check to see how long he had
been in the Seattle District I clicked
on the webpage to discover that he had
written a note to the public that he was
leaving
for Sacramento California to be the
superintendent there where he's going to
make 290 thousand dollars
foreign
and this is the superintendent's salary
if she had received the same kinds of
increases that Pat received including
steps and cola's average steps and colas
across the years that she has been with
the district
so we're looking at the 200 2014 2015
year is 256 853.
so this is the proposed contract it's a
salary of 247 thousand dollars below the
national median
a monthly annuity of twenty five hundred
dollars which still results in her
benefits being below the average of
superintendents
benefits consistent with other PPS
administrators no special deals for the
superintendent and she'll continue to
pick up her six percent purrs
like the rest of our employees
so the rationale of salary and benefit
adjustments were achievements the
superintendent's performance and market
indicators where we use similar
demographics and time in the position
I'm confident in our convictions about
the accomplishments of our
superintendent
the benefits to our students of
maintaining strong competitive school
district and in the depth and the
in-depth analysis of superintendent's
compensation at comparable schools
I believe that these adjustments
acknowledge superintendent's leadership
over the past seven years
honor her tenacity and continuing to
work for the betterment of students
through tough budget times and support
our vision important public schools that
all children can achieve
so that's what we went through when we
were trying to determine how to
compensate our superintendent
00h 20m 00s
so at this time I'm going to go ahead
and ask that we have a motion in a
second and then we'll have more
discussion
well now consider resolution 4949
extension of employment contract with
Carol Smith superintendent of Portland
Public Schools do I have a motion in a
second
director Morton moves and director
belisle's seconds the adoption of the
resolution 4949 news Houston is their
public comment yes we have six okay
our first two speakers Kim stockstad and
Greg Burrell
I want to start off for apologizing for
my nervousness I'm not used to speaking
in front of grown-ups I'm as a classroom
teacher I'm more used to eight-year-olds
my name is Kim stocksted
s-t-o-c-k-s-t-a-d and I'm a second grade
teacher at Dunaway Elementary in
Southeast Portland
during this afternoon meeting during a
district summer break I'm here to speak
about the unwise vote today to give our
superintendent a double-digit raise to
be honest when I heard that suggestion
while watching a meeting from home this
spring I let out a Yelp so loud my dogs
jumped off my lap and gave me a dirty
look
a raisin itself is not what I and most
of the Portland Community are objecting
to
but it's the amount that is so grossly
offensive many of my colleagues are
topped out on the salary schedule with
13 plus years teaching a master's degree
and 45 or more additional graduate
credits they have only received a total
of four percent cost of living from the
0809 to the 12 13 school years yes this
step was added in the 1213 school year
but to save teachers and avoid furlough
days teachers voted to give up half of
that step again going above and beyond
the job the call of our jobs to the
benefit of our students by keeping class
sizes and kids in school in my case I'm
only three years and 25 credits away
from hitting this limit I am 35 I live
in a classically old apartment in inner
Southeast yet to help make ends meet I
have a roommate I love my roommate she's
wonderful but still it's terrifying to
know that my district salary here as a
teacher with over a decade of experience
plus continuing graduate level education
to keep my Knowledge and Skills up today
it will leave me not being able to
afford my home let alone afford to
purchase a house in my area that was
just added to a top 10 list of
up-and-coming neighborhoods in the
nation
these are my thoughts when I read The
Oregonian article quoting the current
salary of Carol Smith 193 000 the
proposed increase of 33 percent to um
increase of 66 percent to her annuity
and all of that makes me sick to my
stomach I am sick thinking about all of
the teachers currently topped out the
ones who reach that very quickly like me
and I wonder as a school board do you
even understand what it's like to be in
our position do you understand what it's
like to be 35 to have to live with a
roommate to afford your modest
Department do you understand what it's
like for teachers who are single parents
trying to pay for school supplies
extracurricular activities and family
outings do you understand how difficult
it is for teachers trying to put their
kids through college do you understand
what it's like for teachers trying to
take care of ailing family members this
is our reality I'm not even going to
bring up the amount of money we put into
our classrooms and students on a yearly
basis so imagine what a double-digit
salary increase sounds like to us who
are working in the schools and to the
public
I understand that Carol's salary has
risen only three thousand dollars in
seven years but an increase of 20 to 30
percent it would make more sense in this
day and age to give the superintendent
the same rate of salary increases other
District employees that would
demonstrate you understand how District
employees are in this together give the
superintendent the same modest increase
you give to your employees with the
training and Trust to actually work
directly with students each and every
day
would also like to continue
let's talk
good afternoon I feel like I'm in a
movie Greg Burrell
b-u-r-r-i-l-l and
I wanted to take the opportunity to say
as much positive as I can because I know
you have a really difficult job
superintendent Smith and I've I've
worked really hard to understand what it
is that all of you board members do
and I thought it was really important
that I have my voice heard
and
um what I want to say is I think I
00h 25m 00s
didn't hear what the other people said
but I think what makes the most sense
and feels the most Fair
is that superintendent Smith get a
modest salary increase much as teachers
have gotten in fact most teachers have
suffered a decrease in their annual
salary
um and that's not even considering
additional workload issues
but uh I want to take this moment again
to say that big things are going on in
the district and I think it's really
important
that we figure out the there are thorny
truths and things going on with boundary
reassessment and enrollment and transfer
and I love coming to the board when I
think I know what you should do I don't
know what you should do about all these
issues I'm learning right along with you
but I wanted to make sure that I went on
record saying that I support
superintendent Smith and I support a
modest salary increase because I know it
is a high pressure job and a difficult
job and what I would ask in return I
have heard lots of commentary here on
the board about developing better and
new relationships with the community
better and new relationships
um with teachers and
um to do something about the way
Administration is growing compared to
the way teachers
um
uh teacher Cadre is growing so in other
words we want more teachers and less
people in the central office so
thank you so much for giving me your ear
next we have
Lisa Zuniga and Nancy Newell
Lisa Zuniga
z-u-n-i-g-a a parent of a Franklin
senior and an incoming freshman
it's timely that you're considering
today a contract extension for
superintendent Smith when the needs of
high school students remain unmet in
just three weeks our high schools will
open to students and families who are
under the impression that the course
catalogs they reviewed last spring
represented real classes many of these
students took PPS up on the offer to
attend school for the bare minimum of
hours required by state law and
forecasted for a full day a decision
that better prepares them for College
and Career
by increasing their access to
instruction what I am wondering is
whether these offers will fall apart
come August registration when high
school Staffing is shown to be
inadequate promises to add teachers in
October will ring Hollow to parents and
students last spring during the budget
process I spoke here on behalf of the
parents Coalition asking superintendent
Smith to follow through on her agreement
with our group to create a framework and
Staffing plan that allowed all high
school students genuine access to a full
school day
other parents repeated that request and
yet here we are days away from year four
of part-time high school and we have
incomplete forecasting data no
assurances that enough teachers were
added for the Comprehensive High Schools
to offer students access to the bare
minimum and little to no follow-through
on the superintendent's May 2013
commitment to build a framework for
Staffing high school sufficiently the
high school teachers that have been
added are more likely to go toward
reducing workload a good thing but not
one that will allow students access to a
full day of instruction
I'm here to ask you to postpone this
vote and instead hold a public briefing
on the status of our District's
Comprehensive High Schools show that PPS
is in compliance with the letter and
spirit of the law and confirm high
schools have been staffed to offer every
student access to a full day of
instruction during the 2012 school year
only 17 percent of Portland Students had
a full day that inched up to 30 percent
last year will 2014 perpetuate the
culture of early release late arrival
non-instructional study halls and
extended lunch
the parents Coalition has asked for
forecasting and Staffing information
since before summer began only yesterday
after multiple follow-up requests did we
finally receive data albeit incomplete
this is a red flag at best and a sign of
broken commitments at worst given that
the Department of Education chastised
PPS is out of compliance in spirit if
not in practice in terms of their legal
obligations I have to ask where is the
sense of urgency what data is driving
Staffing decisions and is there a
00h 30m 00s
strategy the parents Coalition is
committed to unearthing what the
district fails to provide willingly we
shouldn't have to act as registration
Watchdogs but we strongly suspect that
PPS is not fulfilling its commitment to
students before you vote Yes on a
contract extension and pay increase ask
yourself whether the unethical practice
of short
of short-changing students has been
resolved to your satisfaction and
superintendent Smith we would ask the
same of you to demonstrate your
commitment to students I urge you to say
out loud before you vote that you're
confident every high schooler in
Portland has unadulterated access to a
full school day and that our high
schools are currently staffed to support
that
thank you very much
I've got some time
I don't know if you're familiar with the
Enron merger can you give us your name
and Nancy spell your last name please
and my address
just need your first name and last name
is your last name thank you so uh I was
part of the uh fighting the Enron merger
the Enron merger came directly into the
school board and um I stopped a good
portion of it to save the school
district money and as we found out there
were Crooks involved in working in our
city that are now in jail so to reflect
on that I would like to say that the
ethics and quality of this board I would
hope is at a much higher standard I
understand Carol Smith's tremendous
accomplishments I would expect that that
would be part of the job also I respect
the fact that yes people do get rewards
for the good work that they do however
we have people working two jobs
just to reach poverty levels we have
people that are without homes we have a
record number of homeless in our city we
have conditions that exist because we're
separating the poor from the rich and
there's nothing in between and that kind
of atmosphere
I ask you what is my value I close two
nuclear plants including the Trojan
nuclear plant how many lives have I
saved I'm in the process of closing the
the plant on the Columbia river which is
a focus human design which people are
watching and if we have any kind of
minor earthquake that thing will blow
and we won't even have the Northwest
left of this on the Hanford reservation
how much you want to pay me for that if
you're looking at values you look at
this is a public school education my
daughter benefited from a tremendous
staff tremendous teachers tremendous
advisors some good Administration some
good school board and she's doing very
well however she has no pensions she has
no guarantee of retirement she has no
guarantee of job security and this is
the norm for our people that we're
graduating and we're not addressing this
and I think it would be a more
respectable answer to these students
that have succeeded and anybody that's
going through this education that
someone like Carol Smith respects the
fact that the community has to have some
place to find this money I'm on fixed
income now
and I think there is a level of concern
that should sit right in the classrooms
today because these kids are being
deprived left and right they're being
filled with huge debts they can't even
get a start and we're sitting here
deciding on thousands of dollars on
performance I don't understand why
administrators and the superintendents
is not expected today I just don't
understand why there's a rollover
guarantee when most of the population is
just trying to get by and this city is
losing its quality of life so I don't
want to see that enhanced by this
increase I think that Carol is terrific
at her job I compliment her highly for
the accomplishments but I disagree with
the amount of the increase thank you
could you please spell your last name
for us n-e-w-e-l-l
thank you very much
our last two speakers are young runan
and Tom Kane
I'm a high school teacher at um social
studies teacher at Wilson High School
and I just want to First could you
please spell your last name yeah
non-n-am thank you and I want to just
first say that I'm just shocked that
we're even here talking about this and
how horrible this is going to look for
us and hurt
um the entire State we're looking at a
time when the right wing is attacking
Public Funding Public Schools everything
saying that we're all overpaid and
everything we this is the first year
where we're not suffering under huge
cuts and they are just waiting for the
opportunity to find more
um things they could use to say how
overpaid people are how we're wasting
people's taxpayer money and this will
become a major thing that they will use
that will hurt us for our long-term goal
of having adequate funding for schools
and I want you to also think about the
fact I mean you know first of all we
should not be talking about markets if
anyone's here to make money please get
00h 35m 00s
out of here we're here for public
education to do a service to students
and to the community not to make money
you're in the wrong place this is not a
business we should not be talking about
markets however if you want to compare
ourselves to other people I mean I think
people's salaries do reflect kind of a
value that we give consider the fact
that we have one out of four students in
Portland that live in poverty do you
want to say that you were that much more
important than them and their families
that are paying taxes I think it's
extremely embarrassing that we're even
considering this or the fact that I have
to teach half time because of our new
schedule that increases our workload
even though our class sizes are reduced
when you get high school teachers to
teach an extra class that's a huge
workload issue and because of that I
actually had to beg to be able to teach
halftime they were trying to force me to
teach five classes and I can't handle
that and do justice to my students so
I'm making a half time salary where I
won't even get benefits for help for
dental or Vision I'm getting a root
canal tomorrow and I have to rush to get
it done because or else it'll be
thousands of dollars out of my pocket
and I can't afford to do that do you
really want to say say that you are that
much more important than me and everyone
else including our students and their
families that your salary should be that
much higher and also I would even say we
shouldn't even have a percentage you
know if I got two percent increase two
percent increase of my salary just do
some math right look at the numbers two
percent of that number compared to two
percent of a hundred and almost two
hundred thousand dollars is a huge
difference I'm curious I mean what do
people do with that kind of money I just
don't know I will show you what my
personal budget is and how I live and I
live a modest life I'm not here to get
rich and in fact I'm taking a major
salary cut and I will maybe even do this
permanently
um and that will affect my retirement
not having dental and vision benefits
for the rest of my life and that's what
I'm prepared to do to serve my students
thank you
hi Tom Kane k-a-n-e
I'm not here to evaluate the
superintendent Pro or con it's really
not in my capacity I admire her
long-term commitment to Portland Public
Schools I myself have been teaching for
over 20 years and no one had to offer me
another eighty thousand dollars to do it
um but someone is responsible for hiring
uh Yvonne Deckard at fifteen thousand
dollars a month
um and spending 360
000 to get a contract that teachers
likely would have settled without any
participation from Miss Deckard
so I sometimes imagine uh and I would
apologize for the non-linear nature of
this uh because uh this is a bit hasty
but I sometimes imagine I'm going to
play the lottery and if I win the
lottery I'll buy myself a new Tesla
and apparently the superintendent won
the lottery because that's the kind of
money we're talking about
it's a question of proportion
teachers had to spend thousands of their
own hours their own time including a
24-hour bargaining session
so that we could eke out a 2.3 percent
raise
we've had a five percent raise of the
last five years
and what is it what does this kind of
array say to our District's parents as
young pointed out a quarter of whom are
living below the poverty line
um about our commitment to equity these
people who make two who work two jobs to
make ends meet
um I I get it that the super you're
comparing the superintendent to other
and superintendents um but as far as I'm
concerned they're all overpaid as well
um so again I have a similar question to
hyung what is it that someone can't
afford at a hundred and ninety thousand
dollars a year
and um finally
um as a last note if the superintendent
would refer her bargaining negotiator to
the union we would greatly appreciate it
okay that's it great thank you very much
to everyone for your testimony
um
is there is there any board discussion
um so and I will have more discussion on
the contract so who would like to start
Steve
all right this is not my discussion on
the topic I'll do that
I have a question on the presentation
because I'm talking all the time about
Ford
the Quorum and how we work well
somebody had to put together the
presentation
was that done by you personally and then
you asked the people to do the
presentation for you in the school
district to put together and do that or
did you do that and then tell them to
00h 40m 00s
put that together so you could show that
up I mean can I do that can I because I
can ask the people to put together a big
presentation for me on some topic and
yeah let me answer your question
I'm sorry I thought you said sure no
the uh what I did was put together all
the information and I asked staff to put
it into PowerPoint because I am not that
computer savvy
yeah I do that and I can put in
PowerPoint and open the PowerPoint for
me and I can show that if it has
something to do with the district sure
what we're doing okay great just wanted
to make sure we know what you're doing
and then I can give it before we do the
can I give that before we actually have
a a
motion a resolution can I just kind of
do that that was done before the
resolution was made yes it was so in
this case because I was the one who was
leading the negotiations with a
superintendent I wanted the public to be
aware of all of the things that we had
looked at
um and the process that we went through
so I it's almost like having a staff
person almost like a staff person coming
up and explaining
um what the district went through and
how we reached our decision and I will
have some comments to make as a board
member also so okay I'd just like to
suggest that next time we have the
resolution first then we do the
presentation which is the proper order
to do things
thank you
do you have comments on the contract
yeah
sure
I'm supporting the position that and and
I want to make sure that it's clear that
this has nothing to do with any personal
thing with the superintendent who I have
many times said I think is a very nice
person and has treated me very well and
I appreciated that the whole time I do
think that we should
be offering the superintendent the ideal
2.3 percent that we gave teachers I
think that it's fair that we have pretty
much every person in the District
Administrative and so forth it's fairly
equal to that I and so that's the
position that I'm supporting and
anything beyond that I'm voting against
but there's another there's a reason for
that also and
I just kind of want to State how I feel
about it I think if if I was in the four
count
because I think it was Matt
profit the first time I heard this said
as an old superintendent he said the
most important thing for a
superintendent is to be able to count to
four and I thought it was a pretty good
statement and he said he was a pretty
smart man and I think that we have a
superintendent who can clearly count to
four and I think I'm about number 23 on
the count but that's not the point the
point is that then why uh yeah I know
you picked up on that didn't you that's
good that's good you got the account
yeah you guys Mass picking up up here uh
I grew up in a small I grew up in a
small town in Oregon and in a small town
in Oregon we used to have a Fix-It guys
and they sometimes even had the name Mr
fix it and so you would call if you had
a problem with your refrigerator and it
was leaking you would call in Mr Fixit
guy and if you had problems again you'd
need your front steps uh fix you would
call in Mr Fix It guys well that's kind
of how I believe we should be as a
school district we should have Fix-It
people out there that's the job of the
administration to be to fix it people
and so you come in with a problem and
they fix that problem actually fix the
problem and what I think's happened and
this is why I'm kind of a little
non-supportive of some of the things
that we do
corporations
get the idea that they have fixers
they have people who come in who are
fixers they come in and they smooth over
the problem and they make it look better
and they do public relations for it and
they don't really fix the problems they
fix what it looks like and I think we've
become to a huge degree a
District of fixers instead of Fix-It
people and it's hard for me to support
that because you don't really get the
problems taken care of so when you are
when you have graduation rates that
you're trying to get up I mean that's a
hard problem a kid's in our system for
12 years theoretically as you go through
for 12 years you should be able to at
the end graduate from high school if
you've got a good good education it's
not something you fix in a year it's not
something you fix in two years you fix
it over 12 years and you that's how you
00h 45m 00s
fix it but we have a tendency instead of
instead of taking those graduation
problems and making them work we
manipulate we are manipulating them to
some degree sure sometimes they work but
basically we're manipulating each other
the fixtures are manipulating things
it's the same to a certain degree you
can do the same thing with testing I've
I've begged the superintendent to have
the testing committee
and said please the one that she
promised that we would have please have
the testing committee so we can actually
get down and look and see what's
happening in those schools but instead
we're doing the fixture things so we
have all these fixer administrators
instead of Fix-It people and that's
where I'm having a hard trouble saying
okay we have this success let's kick it
up and let's in we're having this great
success I don't see the great success I
see the fixer stuff not to fix it and so
that's why I'm not overly supportive of
this huge contract for the
superintendent as much as I think she's
a very nice person thank you very much
thank you another board member
should ask Ruth
Ruth do you want to talk
do you want to do you want to go next
okay
let me see if I can let's see how this
works
okay go ahead
whoops
um so it's one of the three Warrior
number two helped hire Carol Smith back
in 2007.
um I take my share of accountability
we're not
um salary increases over the last seven
years
and has abortion so we would not be
independent
um because it's a large kind of one-time
increase
but we do need to recognize the
alternating performance of
superintendent Smith not just for
universally acknowledged wonderful
personal qualities
your professional accomplishments and
her truly outstanding leadership and
performance for this District over the
past seven years as Jam reviewed
including the increase in our graduation
rate and then what
momentum that we're seeing in that
direction are nationally recognized
Equity policy Furniture stewardship of
public dollars during state budget cuts
over the last several years passage of
the capital Bond and local option Levy
and on and on
um and we do need to be in the market
range for a district of our size I like
it or not Urban School superintendents
are the highly competitive
high pressure and therefore highly
compensated positions that's just the
reality we live in in our world
um
we need to we need to be it compensate
her according to her performance and in
line with similar districts similar
school districts and really for me most
importantly we have we must not
underestimate
value to our district and really the
entire Community to have the long-term
leadership of Carol's caliber in other
words for the seven years every
additional year
financially when you don't have the
churn and the chaos that comes with
Constitution
I'm very very fortunate here in Portland
to have her long-term study leadership
and that is of incalculable value so so
I appreciate
um
um some long work and researching and
negotiating and working through this to
come to this final package obviously I
deeply appreciate Carol's leadership and
hope she'll be with the district for
many years to come and I'm supporting
the resolution thank you
thank you Ruth
Victor Regan
so when superintendent Carol Smith was
first hired seven years ago she was
given a salary that was less than the
former superintendent and less than
Market comparables because she lacked
two key ingredients
experience as a superintendent and
experience running a large and complex
Urban School District
seven years later the superintendent
resumes now includes these key
ingredients yet her salary is
essentially the same
so an adjustment is more intent
as we started this process I had two
priorities the first was to get our
superintendent salary to a point that is
Market competitive and the second was to
assure that the superintendent's
contract remains simple and transparent
no hidden payouts no add-ons
so how you define Market competition is
important comparisons to Seattle and
00h 50m 00s
California are interesting but to me not
necessarily appropriate as Portland is a
very different Market
comparing Portland to Beaverton OR Salem
is not Apples to Apples either we are
the only Urban School District in the
state our student demographics are
challenging in unique ways our cost of
living is higher we have a strong and
engaged business community and unique
partnership opportunities and we are the
media hub for the state
so for Market comparables I looked at
several different factors first what do
superintendents and comparably sized
urban districts make and for districts
with 30 to 60 000 students the range is
anywhere between 224 000 and 300 000.
second what do Urban superintendents for
five or more years experience make the
average is 247.
male superintendents of course make more
female superintendents make less that's
a sad statement but it is the reality so
male superintendents with five years
experience on average make 257 female
superintendents on average make 238.
third I looked at the races the Portland
Public School teachers have gotten
during the same year a seven year time
frame that analysis is interesting if
superintendent Smith had made the raises
or cost of living increases that
teachers got without seniority steps her
salary would be about two hundred and
ten thousand
if she had received the same reasons his
teachers get during the first 13 years
of service meaning cost of living
increase plus steps her salary would be
closer to 250 000.
so finally if superintendent Smith had
received a raise of 3.5 percent for each
of the past seven years her salary would
be about 245 000. so looking at all of
these factors
it's reasonable if the superintendent
salary should be in the mid 240s
somewhere which is a significant
increase and I acknowledge that but it's
likely where we would need to be if we
were out in the market today recruiting
for a new superintendent
so a clean and transparent contract is
actually a higher priority for me than
the raise itself
when I was elected to the Portland
School Board in 2003
we made several intentional changes to
our administrative contracts the board
before us had done two six figure
contract buyouts one for a former
superintendent and one for an assistant
superintendent
we had to do a third the community was
outraged and we were mortified
so we changed our policies and practices
to ensure this didn't happen again and
in fact the legislature responding to
this faster Bill to ensure the districts
were not allowed to pay employees for
time they don't actually work
so since that time we have no golden
parachutes or bonuses or other extras in
our administrative contracts no housing
allowances no cars we have no special
health insurance payouts and in fact our
senior administrators received the exact
same health insurance as all of our
other administrators
so as we started this discussion I
wanted to be sure that we didn't lock
future school boards into overly
generous contract terms or raises they
would have to pay out I specifically
wanted to be sure we were never again in
a situation where we might have to do a
six-figure contract buyout
our current superintendent contract
today includes salary and an annuity
otherwise it is a clean and transparent
contract I'm pleased that after
prolonged negotiations the contract
we're voting on today also includes
salary and annuity with no extras hidden
Within
if we hadn't gotten there my colleagues
knew that I would be a no vote
and while the salary we're offering is
higher than I'd like it's in the
ballpark of where I believe we need to
be to be Market competitive
so my vote today
is based on where we should be in the
market and where we would need to be if
we were launching a superintendent
search tomorrow but I would like to take
the opportunity
to comment a little bit on the
superintendent's performance
during the superintendent seven years we
have dealt with significant annual
budget cuts that have hampered our
ability to invest fully where we need to
invest
yet even in these times
we have significantly increased language
immersion opportunities every Portland
Public School now has counseling support
for students we have summer intervention
sessions
targeted to students needing extra
support or those in key transitional
periods
we started a successful middle college
program at Jefferson High School
we're finalizing turf fields at all of
our high schools
we rebuilt Marysville school after a
tragic fire we converted all of our
furnaces to Natural Gas saving millions
of dollars in utilities and we've
significantly increased professional
development around cultural competency
in addition we successfully passed a
local teacher Levy in 2011 with our 2011
with our current Levy paying for about
600 teaching positions
00h 55m 00s
we passed a nearly 500 million dollar
facilities bond in 2012 allowing us to
start the much needed renovation of our
schools starting with three high schools
plus seismic roof accessibility and
science lab upgrades
and we settled a highly contentious
teacher contract in a way that supports
both students and staff adding 180
teachers and lowering our student
teacher ratio adding two days to our
school calendar and allowing us at long
last to get out early in the market to
hire the best and the brightest new
teacher talent each year
in a previous contract negotiation we
fully revised our teacher evaluation
process
most importantly we're seeing a steady
increase in our graduation rate up 14
points in the last four years
so is there more to do absolutely
our graduation rate is still a hair
lower than the state average and way
lower than what any of us would view as
excessive as acceptable
we're still working to provide a full
class schedule and to meet minimum
instructional hours for our high school
students
our administrative support for school
principals must be beefed up
we're in the process of improving our
parent complaint process which has left
too many caring parents in bureaucratic
limbo we continue to work on strategies
to address our unacceptable achievement
gap between white students and students
of color although we are making progress
we need to continue to strengthen our
Partnerships with labor and trades
especially to support Career Technical
education opportunities for our students
and our relationship with Portland
Association of teachers must evolve into
a healthier partnership generally
so my vote today should not be
interpreted as a statement that all is
well it is a statement however
that says we're making steady progress
we should be paying our superintendent a
competitive salary and we have urgent
work to do to better support our
students staff and Families
John
thank you
um I only have
comments uh
but I I think generally hiring and
retaining a superintendent is probably
one of the most challenging and also
most public
things that a and responsibilities that
a board has
I think
the Oregon educational investment board
for example learned their lesson when
they hired Rudy crew
um is to see how difficult it is to to
bring in a quality education leader
um
I think uh you have an opportunity to
invest in rhetoric or you have an
opportunity to invest in stability
and I I think the stability that
superintendent Smith has offered this
District over a number of years
is too important of a commodity for us
to sacrifice
and uh and I will be a yes Vote for This
resolution
tough sure
um okay I have a couple comments uh to
make starting with process
we had about
uh I don't know somebody can Greg you've
probably counted but
12 14 15 20 Executive sessions when we
were dealing with the contract for the
labor for our teachers
um I thought it was important as a board
to have an executive session to discuss
the employment contract of our
superintendent and
um
I was told by the chairs that no that
was not legal I then asked an opinion of
our attorney who
um
said no that's not appropriate
and it it just defies for me it just
defied common sense
had I been the chairs I probably would
have just called an executive session
regardless of the of the legal advice
but
um what I would what I'd like to do
um and our our attorney uh suggested
there might be a way of running this off
the flagpole I'd like to do that because
in the future we
ought to have and I know it would save
you a lot of time Pam
uh you did an amazing amount of work on
this uh and so I wanted to thank you for
that uh calling people and emailing and
you know and then you get into the phone
tag and he said she says it's just it's
01h 00m 00s
a lot of work
um in terms of a doing things correctly
I think I think we ought to have had an
executive session when we talk about the
employment of our super so
um
so I plan to follow through and
counselor if you could help
what the next steps are on that but I
think we need to get clarity on that
um
second uh
to me this isn't it it's a it's an easy
vote I'm going to vote no
um and it's uh and it's an easy vote for
this reason is
um as as board members we have lots of
different constituents and
um all the way from you know the kids uh
to the parents to the teachers to each
other and to the taxpayer and every
decision we make
um
one or one of those constituents I mean
it might be more appropriate and this is
a decision today where uh I think as a
board
um
we
the the foremost in front of my mind is
uh constituent is a taxpayer is uh what
as what kind of contract can we
negotiate that is
uh
that is both fair to our superintendent
but also is fair to the taxpayer
um and is the best deal that we can get
and I I feel like we didn't
um that this deal doesn't represent the
best
deal that we can negotiate on behalf of
our taxpayers um I want to acknowledge
Carol you not taking raises I want to
acknowledge your your good work and your
longevity and your leadership
um I think that this uh
that the proposed increase is just is
just too big and you know we're in that
we're in this that situation but it's
just it's too big of an increase given
where we're at
um
and
um
and I I don't think it's appropriate to
um it's certainly a valid methodology
and everybody and their mother's Uncle
uses it to go out and look at you know
different cities and uh and what
everybody else is paying and what as
from a taxpayer standpoint what that
happens is it's just a spiral on up and
it's a it's a Chase to who can be the
highest
um I don't I don't think we need I don't
think we need to do that I think here in
Oregon uh you know we're constantly
voted one of the best states one of the
best cities to come to
um and that has value that has monetary
value so I don't I don't buy going out
and comparing us to other uh other
cities across the country
um I do think it's important that
um that we are that we have a relative
pay scale towards other Oregon districts
um and so Bobby and I uh appreciate also
your work in this whole negotiations and
as you said to make it totally clear and
easy and transparent but I disagree with
you on the and and others I mean I
actually think Beaverton Salem
um are are relative districts that we
can compare ourselves to we're about 20
percent larger they um pretty similar
demographics uh in terms of free and
reduced lunch uh and so in my mind where
I where my it was an easy vote to say
yes to a 20 uh compared to
um the second largest District that
we're 20 bigger of but
um
so
moving forward I hope we can have uh
executive sessions when we talk about
this uh as well as talking about it in
the public
and I'll be voting no today
so I don't have anything eloquent
prepared
um but just a couple of thoughts so
people understand my thought process
going through this one if the
superintendent was underperforming then
I wouldn't be considering this but she's
been performing in this people have
pointed out we have been making steady
consistent growth which is actually
better
than spiked and dropping dropping growth
because as happens in testing big spikes
large spikes usually indicate some
anomaly and that's not what we've been
doing we've been growing steadily
um I appreciate the the public comment
about be careful about markets right
because people shouldn't be in this
business for for money
um
01h 05m 00s
as a non-profit employee I just want to
let you know that our our industry our
sector also goes through market rate
adjustments knowing that nobody is in
non-profit work for a few people are in
non-profit work
problem I'll move it over there
sorry phone technicality
um market rate adjustment is just
looking at other people doing the work
and seeing whether or not you're
compensated adequately or similarly and
unlike director curler's experience
where it's a spiral up I've been part of
many adjustments where actually things
have gone down depending on what the
market is ahead of time and so I think
it's reasonable for any industry any
business any organization that's looking
at keeping and retaining people to do
market rate adjustments and as I think
about the priorities that I've seen come
from this board when we were in contract
negotiations with all of our partners
our consistent philosophy was
we want to hire great people we want to
keep good people and we want to be able
to compensate them to keep them around
and we want parity because there isn't
the custodian is not necessarily more
important than the teacher is not
necessarily more important than the
superintendent all of these people have
functions and they affect our kids and
how we move and they're all important so
so it's important that we do consider it
in the context of our system and you've
seen Graphics that while if you look at
the actual increase in a one time it is
an extraordinary amount yes but it is
because it has been artificially
depressed partly because of State
funding over the past seven years and
again to superintendent Smith's credit
she has not been willing to take that
understanding the sacrifices that
everybody has been making
at the same time what that does is with
superintendent's salary pegged at a
certain amount it affects the rest of
the organization meaning we cannot raise
somebody below her to a competitive
level or the person below them at some
point they wind up bumping into each
other and we begin losing people to
either States or other districts because
we cannot hire the type of quality
people that we want so if I think of
various positions in our organization
whether it's our executive level they're
not all education positions some of them
are transferable Financial people human
relations people whatever the case may
be folks have the choice of going to
City
have the choice to going to County have
the choice to go into large private
organizations now we can sit as a
philosophy and say well if that's what
they're here for then we don't want them
the reality is people doing the same
exact job will look at what their
options are and just like all of us that
are trying to make ends meet and trying
to figure out how to be the best for our
family they may or will make other
choices so it's important that we be
aware of it not that we Chase it but
that we be aware of it so I'll be voting
yes for this understanding that for me
this large of an increase is a one-time
thing and I will be even in next years
depending on what the budget is
advocating for the superintendent to
continue to take those regular step
increases whether it's 2.3 whatever it
is so that in another five years we
don't find ourselves having to do this
large of an adjustment
Ruth any more comments
no thank you
um okay I think most of the my
most of what I thought about while I was
trying to cover this decision was
included
included earlier but I do want to say uh
that I
value very much the work that
superintendent Smith has done for us
over the past seven years
and particularly the things that we can
see so easily the increase in our
graduation rate the narrowing of our
achievement Gap passing of a bomb
passing of a levy putting more money
into schools putting more teachers into
schools our Equity policy these are all
things that that make Portland Public
Schools the great District that it is
and I think that it's her longevity and
her willingness to stick with it through
really tough times these have been
really tough budget times in in Oregon
her longevity and her laser-like focus
on making sure that our students achieve
all students achieve not not just those
who always will but all students achieve
to me has been a tremendous benefit for
this district and I really do appreciate
and I I also want to comment briefly on
the fact that we do want to hire and
retain the best people we possibly can I
think Greg said it very well because the
upheaval that's caused by people coming
01h 10m 00s
and going like Portland Public Schools
suffered through for many many years
those of you in the audience probably
remember every two years a new
superintendent uh
very difficult and is why the one of the
reasons why the district was in the
state that it was in when Carol came on
board
and so I want to thank her again for her
longevity and for her laser-like focus
on making sure all of our students
achieve and I'm also a yes phone
so the board will now vote on resolution
number 4949 all in favor please
no voice okay all those in favor Miss
Houston will you call the role
director Atkins
economically director Atkins can vote
but it's I'm not going to make a big
deal out of it but let's check out that
we should check that because we'd be
going from if it's not in our policy
we'd be going for Robert Rule's order
and I don't think in under Robert's
Rules she can vote there is it's either
a policy or there one or the other but
it's I won't make a big stink out of it
because there's obviously already four
votes right to pass it so but let's
check and make sure next time thank you
thank you we'll look into that
yes director Regan yes director Buell
no director Morton yes director Curley
no
chair Knowles yes
Okay resolution 4949 is approved by a
vote of five to two five to two thank
you very much everybody
so Pam can I just say Carol you of
course so
um number one I just wanted to express
appreciation to the board for the amount
of research and due diligence of what
was really a complex set of
considerations in figuring out what was
both how we're bringing our whole system
into Market including the
superintendent's salary
and all of the other
factors that you weighed and voices that
you listen to in arriving at what came
forward today and it was over a series
of months so this was clearly not a
straightforward process as people
understood and other factors got raised
by members who came and testified today
but my appreciation for you for the
thoughtful work that you did to get to
what we got to today and then just my um
both feeling like we've got a strong
Foundation that we're building from
right now and I'm really excited about
what we have in front of us and I
appreciate looking at another three
years we've got really clear focus on
the things that we are working to
accomplish for kids in the next three
years and I look forward to doing that
with all of you so I'll just say
I'm excited about the go forward and
building on our momentum thank you
thank you very much
okay we'll move forward
with agenda the board now consider
remaining items on the business agenda
having already voted on resolution 4949
Miss Houston are there any changes to
the business agenda there's not there
are not enough
do I have a motion and a second to adopt
the business agenda
director Morton moves and director Regan
seconds the adoption of the business
agenda Miss Houston do we have public
comment no we don't
is there any board discussion on the
business agenda director Buell
it'd be nice to have a some sort of a
report
from the superintendent on what's taking
place with these legal
matters that keep coming forward and
they keep giving people money
and so it just seems I don't mean now
but I mean it'd be nice to have some
sort of discussion because there's a lot
of discussion out like we keep giving
people money well we do based on
obviously we're making errors or maybe
we're just giving him money because
we're not making errors I can't figure
it all out so I'd love to have some
edification
around how come we keep giving all these
people money
are we making mistakes out there of some
sort that we could correct or something
it's not a lot of money it's 170
000 or something that's you know that's
a chunky yeah it's a couple that's four
of my uh halftime Librarians in the
elementary schools that we're handing to
people because we're making some sort of
mistake so I don't know exactly how it
works but I'd love to know what's taking
place we can prepare some kind of a
review for you Steve that's nice thank
you
any other comments director I just I
just want a clarification so I
understand
um so when I saw these on the agenda it
also was accompanied by our attorney
saying that she is willing to go through
those
um and discuss the the situations in
each of those with any of us is that
apparently isn't to your satisfaction
01h 15m 00s
there's a pattern it's it's happened
over a period of time and so the
individual ones are are so suppose they
say well we we did this and made a
mistake here is that part of a pattern
can we correct that in some way by the
superintendent taking some action so we
don't end up paying this money that's
what I'm interested in is is looking at
it as a pattern not as just individual
thing and the offer of sitting down for
those so that you could discern a
pattern potentially as in doesn't
suffice uh yeah
I could sit down with people they're
welcome my
have a nice little area out there by my
condo they can come and sit right on the
deck and we can talk about it that would
be great
that has possibilities
okay any other discussion on the
business agenda
okay the board will now vote on the
business agenda all in favor please
indicate by saying yes yes
uh call the pose please indicate by
saying no
uh the bin excuse me the business agenda
is approved by a vote of seven to zero
the next meeting of the board will be
held on Tuesday August 12 2014 and this
meeting is adjourned that meeting on
August 12th is at is that going to be at
six at six o'clock
Sources
- PPS Board of Education, Archive 2014-2015, https://www.pps.net/Page/1893 (accessed: 2022-03-24T00:57:53.371200Z)
- PPS Communications, "Board of Education" (YouTube playlist), https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8CC942A46270A16E (accessed: 2023-10-10T04:10:04.879786Z)